Founder and CEO of Westgate Resorts, David Seigel, sent an email out to all of his employees Monday with the insinuation that if President Barack Obama is reelected their employment within his company may suffer.
David Siegel’s email appeared to be a veiled threat to his employees, saying that they could vote for either candidate, but that if Obama wins, they will likely lose their jobs. The email bore a striking resemblance to a 2008 chain letter about the elections, and the Westgate Resorts CEO confirmed with Gawker that he used the chain letter’s basic structure, but changed it to suit his needs. Siegel stated:
“I did use the letter that had circulated before as a guideline, but I changed it [to fit my circumstances]. It speaks the truth and gives [employees] something to think about when they go to the polls.”
The Huffington Post notes that in his letter, the Westgate Resorts CEO stated:
“If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, as our current President plans, I will have no choice but to reduce the size of this company. Rather than grow this company I will be forced to cut back. This means fewer jobs, less benefits and certainly less opportunity for everyone.
“So, when you make your decision to vote, ask yourself, which candidate understands the economics of business ownership and who doesn’t? Whose policies will endanger your job? Answer those questions and you should know who might be the one capable of protecting and saving your job. While the media wants to tell you to believe the “1 percenters” are bad, I’m telling you they are not. They create most of the jobs. If you lose your job, it won’t be at the hands of the “1%”; it will be at the hands of a political hurricane that swept through this country.
“You see, I can no longer support a system that penalizes the productive and gives to the unproductive. My motivation to work and to provide jobs will be destroyed, and with it, so will your opportunities. If that happens, you can find me in the Caribbean sitting on the beach, under a palm tree, retired, and with no employees to worry about.”
David Siegel has a history of interfering in political elections, according to Bloomberg Businessweek, even claiming that he was the one who helped former President George W. Bush defeat Al Gore. Siegel revealed that:
“When I saw a negative article about [Al] Gore, I put it in with the paychecks of my 8,000 employees. I had my managers do a survey on every employee. If they liked Bush, we made them register to vote. But not if they liked Gore … On Election Day, we made sure everyone who was voting for Bush got to the polls.”
Westgate Resorts CEO David Siegel didn’t say if he is doing the same thing to get Mitt Romney elected, but he did warn his employees, “The economy doesn’t currently pose a threat to your job. What does threaten your job, however, is another 4 years of the same Presidential administration.”
Do you think that CEOs like David Siegel have the right to threaten their employees over who they will vote for in the Presidential election?
Since he is offering them something of monetary value for their vote isn't he in essence buying their vote? We all know it is illegal to buy votes so can't he be prosecuted for that?
What a great picture they chose to run on this story. God forbid, his lordship might have to sell his goddamn golden throne!
Look at him in his golden throne! What a douche! As Romney tries to connect with the middle class, his millionaire pals just can't keep cool under the desperation of the polls.
By the way, this is not unheard of in Florida: my wife received a "memo" years ago listing the "company friendly" members of congress and county council… al republican of course.
Seems those who believe they "built this" are granted the ownership of the vote of their employees.
Is this the type of logic they taught you at the Kansas City Art Institute? Do you REALLY believe that a man can be prosecuted in the United States for telling his employees that if he is forced to continue to pay exorbitant taxes his business will not be profitable and he will have to downsize?Go read the entire email before you make statements like this.
Die you evil bastard.
Do some research on his company and you will find out it might be a blessing in disguise if he had to let go of staff. There are thousands of complaints out there concerning his timeshare schemes.
What a greedy azz this guy is. Your resorts can only be successful if regular people have enough money to spend on vacations. Your resorts are run by skilled people you hire and if enough people have bad experiences with unskilled staff, your resort will suffer. So why keep all the profit for yourself and NOT share some of your success with your employees? Even "workers" "invest in themselves" either through education or learning a skill, and they perform a valuable service for you! If EVERY business owner had this philosphy, no one would have enough money to vacation and you would go out of business, AND if you don't hire skilled people you at decent wages, you will go out of business. He thinks HE's the only one who makes sacrifices to succeed?
No one wants your wealth "redistributed." No one wants people getting money for nothing. We just want you to pay tax at a rate that's comparable to what we pay, Mr. Sitting on a Golden Throne (literally look at the picture) with the elevator up to the penthouse suite, of your OWN HOME!
I won't be staying in any Westgate hotel in the future. After THAT email? You'll probably have to lay people off either way 'cause you sound so pompous, arrogant and holier than thou I think people might remember this and boycott.
We'll only the weak minded employees will listen to this rhetoric. U see his theory is this. W/the prez getting 4 more years, the economy will only get worse and these mill/billionaires will have to pay 35% of their taxes vice 13% and that will break them and then it will be a snowball effect passed on to their employees. NOT. W/the dweebs fear is the economy getting below 7.2% next year after the Prez gets reelected and the employees that have been at minimum wage for 3-4 years, will jump ship to a better paying job. That leaves these busters with less experience to run their companies……………..
(@ Jared) …says the boy who hasn't even graduated from school yet. Tell me what real life experience you have. Wait until YOU'RE paying a third of your meager income to Uncle Sam while your boss pays a fraction of that percentage while building mansions snd COMPLAINING THAT HE WON'T BE ABLE TO PAY YOUR SALARY! That is, IF some CEO deems you worthy and grants you a low-paying job in HIS multi-billion $ corporation. The email IS a threat. Otherwise, why bother sending it? It should be illegal.
This man built his company from the ground up, taking all the risks and being successful. He did not threaten his employees. He simply stated that if the company had to endure more of the anti business attitude from this administration that he would downsize or better yet retire therefore closing the company. His business has been cut in half over the past four years. Why stick around and watch it completely go down the tubes. It is a lot harder to keep a company in business with so many employees when it becomes a situation where you are paying the government so much that you can't reinvest in the company to continue growth..
@Jared – I'm not exactly sure what my 2 degrees have to do with this topic at hand. I guess you thought that comment should somehow make me look bad by pointing out I'm an artist? Frankly I don't really care . . . Of course he is within the "law" but it is immoral and unfair of him to threaten his employees in such a manner. In fact is is asinine. He is going to hold them accountable for something that in reality is out of their hands. Will he still fire (layoff) a bunch of people even if they all did vote for his candidate. That would be rather unfair wouldn't it? He is using intimidation. I'm sure that is the kind of employer you want to work for don't you? You'd be first in line to kiss his ass I suppose . . . Anybody that is still trying to beat that dead horse "He built it himself" really needs to go back and see the whole video tape of what Obama was taking about when he said, "You didn't build that." So I guess they don't teach critical thinking at Texas A&M do they. I thought all the bright boys figured that one out by now, but then you go to Texas A&M so what should I expect?
Jared Booth One more thing, what would you say of Warren Buffet sent out an email that in essences said if you don't vote for Obama I'm going to fire you? Would your opinion still so generous saying it's all fine, unicorns and rainbows?
Does anybody really believe that he is going to stop trying to make more money just because he might get taxed more? That's not going to happen. He might fire people because he's a sore loser, but he isn't going to stop trying to become richer and richer until the day he retires as CEO or dies.
Yes, because we all know that him working for his own benefit is evil, but him working for your benefit is good. That him wanting his own money is bad, but you wanting his money is just fine. That he has no right to downsize, reduce his workload, or go out of business as long as you haven't gotten all you can out of him yet.
Just admit it: your real problem with Siegel's "golden throne" isn't that he has it, but that it isn't yours.
Actually, he's offering to do exactly that. At least, if he goes out of business then for all intents and purposes he might as well be dead. Are you saying that that is what you want?
The real problem leftists have with rich men's money is not that those men are rich, but that the leftists haven't had a chance to tax it from him yet.
I swear, sites like this have ten times the "envy and greed" of any businessman that I have ever met. The hypocrisy is astounding. Earning your money is sinful, but stealing it from those who earned it under cover of pious slogans is moral? Telling your employees that bad decisions have consequences is bribery and a threat, but telling people to vote for you because you'll hand them more taxpayer dollars is A-OK? Running a business is evil villiany, but suddenly if you downsize or fold you're a monster who hates the poor because where will those employees go?
Ayn Rand was a frickin' prophet. Don't say you weren't warned.
So what if Warren Buffet sent out an email that in essences said if you don't vote for Obama I'm going to fire you? Would your opinion still so generous saying it's all fine, unicorns and rainbows? Or would it be a left wing communist plot?
@ Ana ..You are correct I have not graduated from school but I am currently employed (meaning I pay taxes) to help pay for my education which I also have loans for. And no, I do not see that as unfair. If you read the entire email, which is NOT on this website, you will realize it is not a threat. Yes, it may come across as harsh and greedy, which I am not staking a stance in favor for, but it also contains statement of fact. Mr. Siegel may have more money than all of us and would be doing his employees a disservice by following through with his statements but the reality is that if it becomes fiscally unreasonable for him to continue operations with the increasing taxations that the corporation faces it is his right as a business owner to do something about it. And although they are fleeting, we as Americans still have certain rights, free speech being one of those. This is just another example of the media aggrandizing the remarks of an influential figure. I can guarantee you that ninety-five percent of Siegel's employees will still vote for the candidate of their choice regardless of what the man at the top of the pecking order has to say.
@Kim ..I apologize for the original remark, it was unnecessary but was not a jab at your education or career choice. Outside of that I made one single point. In your rebuttal, you agreed with me. He is "within the law." As I said to Ana, it is not my position here to argue in favor of Mr. Siegel's choice of words. I was just astounded that an educated American like yourself would come onto a news website and make the remark that he should be prosecuted for something clearly within the bounds of the law. Also, I did not bring up anything about Obama, Romney, "built it himself," or any other political agenda so lets not turn this into something it is not. In response to your question, yes, it would be hypocritical if Siegel did not terminate employees if they voted for his candidate of choice. However, if his candidate of choice wins the election and economic conditions do not change I would not be surprised if he went through with his plans of downsizing. Call it what you will, the United States is still not a socialist state. We will never all be "equal" except for in the eyes of God. There will always be people whose lifestyles and/or choices the majority of us do not agree with but that is the nature of Capitalism, without which our country would never have achieved the standard of living that we are fortunate enough to have.
Oh, the left radio station was screeching about this – saying "How disgusting" LOL what a bunch of cry babies!!
Brianna Aubin, you are sadly mistaken.
The employer I work for has over 5,000 employees at our home office in Milwaukee WI. Our employer has already informed us that the additional cost they incurto fully implement Obamacare will passed directly to guess who, thats right, us employees that are in the 53%. I just hope the 53% vote to retire the commie from Kenya next month.
There is no envy or greed here, just compassion, which many seem to lack.
So, if I have a do-well company and I tell my employees "Vote for Obama because Mitt Romney will increase your taxes and I do not mind him rising mine" you will support me, right?
Look, defend Mitt any way you want, but his policies are not wistanding the burden of proof, fact and simple math. Moreover he has no real delieated plan. So even Mr Siegel can't say Romney can or will fix the economy…but he do knows Myth Romney will cut his taxes..Hmmm…
Ayn Rand would probably spit on any Tea Bagger that praised her. I never understood any Tea Bagger that followed her like a saint or prophet considering that most Tea Baggers are devoted Christians or claim to be very religious but they somehow manage to to overlook the fact she felt, “Belief in god is a sign of psychological weakness” . . . She was also a legendary opponent of a “welfare state” yet she received Social Security and probably Medicare. A true hypocrite in the Romney tradition.
Yeah she's a friggin prophet alright, followed by people that she would say have a psychological weakness.
@Jared, I did mistakenly associate the "He build it" comments to you when I should have been directing my response to those particular comments to "TJ Applebz Antix." I would have sworn you had made the comment but sine it was my mistake I'm sorry for my reply to you about that.
The man's a bully, a coward, a thug, a disgrace to America, and a traitor to its ideals.
RisingmidwestMojo Lindner So, your point is that Obama is a commie and a Kenyan, so we have to allow this type of pressure from corporate bullies?
I know your kind and that is why I will vote to keep the likes of you out of the presidency and give pres Obama congress so his job is finished without this kind of biggotry festering in our goverment.
This guy is a real piece of work. "Westgate Founder David Siegel was found guilty of sexual harassment in a lawsuit brought by former Westgate employee Georgette Meyers.[4] Meyers worked for Westgate for 14 years. She claimed that Siegel offered a million dollars to have sex with her. Meyers claimed that she had to repeatedly fight off unwanted advances from Siegel, and a Florida court awarded Meyers $5.4 Million in damages in February 2008."
The more I read the more of a jerk he appears to be, "… in the 2000 presidential election, according to the website Gawker, Mr. Siegel admitted he manipulated his employees voting behavior by asking unregistered employees who they were going to vote for in the election and "making" employees who would vote for George W. Bush register to vote. The method of coercion was not specified."
Well, she was certainly able to predict you and your ilk. And why shouldn't she have drawn money from the welfare state? Given her book sale rates, she was certainly forced to contribute more to it than she ever got from it in return. She actually wrote an article on the subject which explains her position on why it's moral to get some of your own money back, but most leftists are too lazy to look the article up and debate why her view on the subject was wrong. Current company unfortunately included.
As for your slurs on your political opponents, or your foolish assumption that anyone who admires Rand must necessarily walk lockstep with her (I am not Christian, btw)… I'll leave those comments alone.
@Brianna, I never said you were Christian, in fact I figured you fell under the very religious heading . . .
I can see why someone like Rand who says one thing and then does another would appeal to someone who falls lockstep with the two face Romeny who can't help but say one thing and then change his position an hour later (Its called lying btw) . . .
She was a hyprocrite. It's that simple. When her health failed she took government assistance even though she "despised government interference and felt that people should and could live independently… She didn't feel that an individual should take help." But she did and said it was wrong for everyone else to do so.
I can't ever imagine buying something so ridiculous, and I have a well paying job. My real problem is that he has so much money coming out of every orifice of his body that he has to find silly ways to spend it on stupid expensive crap like this, and YET if anyone whispers that his tax rate might rise from 5% to 8%, he threatens to fire his employees like a baby.
He should just close up shop now. He'll continue to spend his wads of money, and thus "create jobs", and our country will be less one time-share scam company. You know all those employees are updating their monster.com profiles right now anyway…
Taxes for the rich are lower than they have ever been in the last 50 years. This guy is completely crazy…
Money can create many inequities; it allows those with it to experience things that those without it can't. However, one thing that is equal among people with or without money is the right to ONE VOTE. People like CEO David Siegel hates this. He feels that because he is rich, he should be entitled to more of a say about what happens in this country than you and I so he resorts to bullying! He threatened his 8000 employees! Yes threatened…. a declaration of an intent to inflict punishment {FIRE/DOWNSIZE}, in retaliation for (A "WRONG" VOTE}, or conditionally upon, some action or course {RE-ELECTION OF PRES OBAMA}. It fits the textbook definition TJ Applebz! Siegel said, "I certainly wouldn't interfere with your right to vote for whomever you choose." But he's also said in a past election, "I had my managers do a survey on every employee. If they liked Bush, we made them register to vote. But not if they liked Gore … On Election Day, we made sure everyone who was voting for Bush got to the polls.” FLIP FLOP! No wonder he likes Romney!
David Siegal is spiteful. Although his company has never been more profitable, he has 5000 less employees since 2007 (right before Pres Obama took office). It's not that he can't hire…he doesn't want to. SPITEFUL! He claims that he will let go of his 8000 employee's if Pres Obama is re-elected despite reporting that the loan on his new house, the LARGEST new house in America, known as "Versailles" has been paid off, that his major lenders have been paid off, and that he has enough money to live the rest of his life. SPITEFUL! He says that ""people like me who made all the right decisions and invested in themselves are being forced to bail out all the people who didn't." Doesn't he realize that taxing everyone at the same rate may mean the difference in basic necessities for some families. His e-mail is a verbal temper tantrum to try to manipulate one of the few equal playing fields that most of us will ever have in common with Mr. Siegal (your vote). I wish that the 53% or 99% could band together to teach corporate bullies like Siegal a lesson, but he wouldn't learn it. He would simply fire one of our own. Just another one of the inequities. (sigh)
Have to at least give him, Seigel, the credit of warning his employees about a possible downsizing. With the Senate on a break the taxes Obama has set in motion will begin in January 2013. Those same tax increases will occur not only to businesses, but also to the middle class and up. A lot of companies do not always give the warning of downsizing, they keep it quiet to the last possible, legal minute in order to prevent any panic from their employees.
Mr Siegel sounds like a modern day slave driver. Its no longer racism but class-ism
You are full of cow's dung! its all about make himself RICHER!
Furthermore Siegel doesn't have to worry about President Obama being reelected. I am going to start a Anti Westgate Resort website!
This will certainly put a dent in his sales! The nerve of this nut case.
Ayn Rand was a prophet and objectivism is very appealing. The problem is that in order for objectivism to work you have to be a genius, like John Galth ot Howard Roark. If you are less than a genious you must not quote Ayn Rand or try to pull her ideas in fron of us: you do not look too smart that way.
With that said, Siegel is not an archetypical genious: he is a bully that is threatening his employees to get
fired if Obama does not win. That does not follow objectivism, is just greed, simple and dumb greed.
Brianna: we were all impressed with Rand's rants about selfishness and the individual uber-mensch.She was also a Nazi sympatyzer, and eventually a social security recipient. I agree with her individualism and her search for a higher goal in life as an expression of one's talents… but this idea has been prostituted by the less smart, talented and just ruthlessly whealty as a justification for their lack of morals and material success. Who is this douche? Just a cheap motel owner on steroids… nothig admirable and actually forgetable, just a "Gail Wynand wannabee".
Now if you choose to call everyone tha differs from you a "liberal socialist", then welcome to the 1930's nazionalistche movement. Good luck with that.
Sexaul harrasment: proof that this guy actually believes he owns his employees.
Oh yeah… "Obama the destroyer of the economy". What a bunch of crybabies these millionaires are!
"Whaaa, taxes! Whaaa Obamacare! Whaaa regulatios!"
They can't keep their business going in a capitalist system based on competition and survival of the most eficient companies, due probably to the fact that they are uber-douches, and then they blame therir corporate incompetence to the president. I do not know how they made their money, obviously cheating, stealing and abusing their employees.
Alert! Alert to all of his employees, take them shackels off your feet. YOU ARE NOW FREE!
Juan, you must be drinking the spiked version of the Obama Kool-Aid. You really don't have a clue do you? Four more years of the commie from Kenya and our money won't be worth the paper it's printed on. If you think the economy is in sad shape now, wait to see what it will look like with this assclown in charge for another four years. Pull your head out of your ass, who do you think is going to pay for ObamaCare? Have you ever run a decent sized business and provided benefits to employees? Do you have any clue what the hell you are even talking about? You cannot stay in business with expenditures exceeding revenue. Our employer offers health care plans for which they cover 85% of the health care insurance premium. Employers are not going to eat this additional cost, they are either going to pass cost increases directly to their employees or to their customers.
RisingmidwestMojo Lindner HAHAHAHA!!! Keep writting Mr Rising Mojo, keep writting your nonsensical rants. I will re-read them after beloved president Obama gets re-elected just to feast in the madness his sweet name and precense in the white house bestows in inferior beings like you. As you grow angrier I may just go out and volunteer to work to get more anti-Romney minorities registered to vote. I personally want to give Honorable Barak Hussein Obama, the noble, as a present, all the electoral votes from Florida to. Mr Obama, recipientof the Nobel peace award, deserves such that!
Juan, you got me there buddy, I just can't argue with that type of intelligent reasoning. If Obama gets re-elected, what is left of middle class america that is still employed had better stock up on KY lubricant and practice bending over. Stay jobless my friend.
ROTFLMAO. Prosecuting an employer for giving his employees a heads up that if Obama is re-elected the business and the economy are going to continue on a downward slide and his employees are all on that slide?
RisingmidwestMojo Lindner – How do you expect anyone to take anything you say seriously given the fact that you will not even accept the FACT that Obama is from Hawaii, a part of the USA?
RisingmidwestMojo Lindner – It's almost as funny as your stance that Obama isn't a citizen of the United States. It is scary that someone that obviously has achieved a certain degree of success in his career could be so deluded about Obama's nationality. Now I have to wonder about the standards of the National Guard. What is it with you Tea Baggers anyway?
Pardon me, I wasn't aware you witnessed his birth or are you relying on the questionable document the Obama administration put together after much angst? I wasn't aware they are raising communists and Muslims in the great state of Hawaii.
Just the facts mam. Other than a hastily assembled birth certificate that is suspect, is there any supporting documentation to prove that B Hussein Obama grew up in the great state of Hawaii? I wasn't aware they were raising Muslims and communists in Hawaii. What is even more delusional is the expectation that another 4 years with Obama in the oval office will be any better than the last 4 years with him in charge. I shudder to think what the state of the union will be 4 years from now if the commie from Kenya is left in charge.
RisingmidwestMojo Lindner _ Well pardon me, I wasn't aware you witnessed his birth in Kenya . . . You Birthers are delusional conspiracy nuts. You have no valid proof to the contrary about his birth or his faith.
And speaking of FAITH, the US was founded on the principle if Separation of Church and State so even if he were a Muslim it has absolutely nothing to do with his ability to lead the country.
Speaking of Muslim's did you know that the favorite sun of the Tea Bagger ilk Grover Norquist is married to a Muslim. OH MY GOD! He is being sleeping with a Muslim woman!!! OH MY GOD he is sleeping with the enemy and surely has been influenced by her!!! I'll bet that she convinced him to intentionally ruin the economy so the Muslims could rule the world!!! IT"S AL A BIG CONSPIRACY!!! (The part about his wife is true, that rest is sarcasm expressly for your benefit)
RisingmidwestMojo Lindner – Well pardon me, I wasn't aware you witnessed his birth in Kenya. HEY, how do I even know YOU were born in the USA? Prove it otherwise I might be talking to a commie Tea Bagger that infiltrated the National Guard so he could reveal national secrets . . . You Birthers are delusional conspiracy nuts. You have no valid proof to the contrary about his birth or his faith.
And speaking of FAITH, the US was founded on the principle if Separation of Church and State so even if he were a Muslim it has absolutely nothing to do with his ability to lead the country.
Speaking of Muslim's did you know that the favorite sun of the Tea Bagger ilk Grover Norquist is married to a Muslim. OH MY GOD! He is being sleeping with a Muslim woman!!! OH MY GOD he is sleeping with the enemy and surely has been influenced by her!!! I'll bet that she convinced him to intentionally ruin the economy so the Muslims could rule the world!!! IT"S AL A BIG CONSPIRACY!!! (The part about his wife is true, that rest is sarcasm expressly for your benefit)
I work for a smallish hotel chain. It is owned by a man that is an unapologetic republican and patriot. He could have outsourced the call center, but he'd rather keep jobs in America. Last year, we got a letter stating that our health care rates shot up 28% as a DIRECT RESULT of Obamacare. He made no implication that he would let anyone go, but he was disqusted by the turn of events.
It's a free country, so if Seigel wants to state his opinion on the matter to his employees, he can. If they want to leave because of it, they're free to do so, and I can guarantee there are plenty that would take their place.
Kim, I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the merits of B Hussein Obama's magical birth certificate, his wonderful compassionate religion and his ability to actually follow through on his promises that he failed to follow through on the first time he was elected. Tea Bagger? Who is Grover Norquist and why should I care about him?
Mojo: I just had to lower my level of logic to yours.
Hint: when your line of thought begins with "get your head out your ass" pretty much you unmasked yourself as a illiterate-reactionary-douche.
Mijo: Ah! Forgot to tell you : the sarcastic tone does not fit your writing… you should stick to the Limbaugh-style-senseless rants.
You see, in order for sarcasm to work you have to be at a higher level of knowledge than your interlocutor… and from what I am reading here, there are not many people below your level for you to burn them with your witt.
Mojo: Ah! Forgot to tell you : the sarcastic tone does not fit your writing… you should stick to the Limbaugh-style-senseless rants.
You see, in order for sarcasm to work you have to be at a higher level of knowledge than your interlocutor… and from what I am reading here, there are not many people below your level for you to burn them with your witt.
Tea Bagger, Commie? Birther? National Guard? Grover Norquist? Based on your profile picture and your comments it would be fun to hang some labels on you but I don't think that would be very productive.
Just the facts mam. Well stated, unfortunately, many Libtards care little about facts. But they do cling to their Hope & Change. I hope change is coming, R & R 2012. Time to take back our country from the Libtards.
For the cro-magnon-birthers: I personally just hope Obama is actually Kenyan! You imagine what a GREAT headline will be?? That this man is such a genious he pulled that stunt and the mighty GOP could do nothing to kick him out of the presidency, but instead just whine in Facebook and shoot isolated campaing centers in CO? I mean, so far, by the time they actually pull a certificate from Kenya Omaba will be at the end of his second term.
Juan, tough to argue with your logic. Thanks for the positive feedback, I'm always looking for improvement opportunities. Birth certificate in Kenya, I thought they were still working on indoor plumbing.
RisingmidwestMojo Lindner – Yes, by all indications you are a Tea Bagger and Birther. I would think that you would know who Grover Norquist is considering he is the architect of the pledge to not raise taxes that a majority of Republicans and Tea Baggers signed. So he holds sway over most of them and he sleeps with a Muslim woman.
If you really are clueless about who Norquist is try Google.
Thanks! I've often heard Liberals think emotionally, Conservatives think logically. I consider myself a Fiscal Conservative, and a Reagan Democrat. My party abandoned me, it's long past time I abandoned it.
RisingmidwestMojo Lindner – If I'm not mistaken you have been using labels to define YOUR Commander & Chief. You called him a Commie, a Muslim, and you question his legal right to hold office as the President because you question his nationality of birth and that's what makes you a "Birther" and the only Birthers I'm familiar with are Tea Baggers.
My mistake mixing up the (Air) National Guard and the Air Force Reserves. They are both reservists but there is definitely a difference, one is state and the other is federal.
I also would be in the Reagan Democrat boat and have always considered myself more of an independent voter. I think the 2008 election was decided by independent voters such as myself whom held our noses and voted for Hope & Change. However, having had the experience of 4 years with the Liberals in charge has pushed me over to the conservative party. I'd venture to guess that I'm not the only independent voter that will be switching votes in November. If enough switch over, we will indeed have some hope and change for the next 4 years.
If the shoe fits…. I'm an independent voter that voted for Obama in 2008, however, I won't make that same mistake twice. Happy to hear you can distinguish between the Guard and Reserve. I retired from the Air Force Reserve before Obama was elected so I never had the unfortunate distinction to refer to him as MY Commander-In-Chief. I feel sorry for those currently serving that do have that unfortunate distinction. I read a recent poll that indicated 65% of military members polled support R & R in 2012, I wonder why.
Antonia Bifano-Freeman – I find it interesting that Republicans believe they think logically. That's a HOOT! How can any believe anything that Romney says. Talk about a Flip Flopper. Seriously, take 56 seconds of your time and hear him contradict himself one topic after topic and see how much he is lying through his teeth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cPgfzknYd20
RisingmidwestMojo Lindner – Independent? Well anyone who calls Liberals "Libtards" is hardly an objective independent. Maybe you voted for Obama in 2008 but you have long since given up any resemblance of being Independent. At least have the courage of your convictions to call yourself a Republican . . .
Not all conservatives are Republican. Nor are all Liberals Democrats. Stop stereotypiing. I am a FISCAL CONSERVATIVE because I am an Accountant by trade. That means I have a better grasp of economics and the American Tax Code than most. As Romney said, "I don't recall seeing ANYWHERE in the tax code that companies are given tax breaks for shipping jobs overseas". The tax break is paying less in corporate income taxes, because America's corporate rate is one of the highest in the world. Small wonder that the UK, Japan, Sweden and Spain are now considering lowering taxes.
I've already taken a lot more than 56 seconds of my time listening to Obama's lies and misdirections. I've also listened to Biden say that he 'means what he says', which means that his administration buried the middle class. It also means he's a hypocrite because he's Catholic and believes life begins at conception but yet, the administration is forcing religious organizations to provide contraceptives, abortion and sterilization to their employees, and they want the government to fund abortions.
You have yet to give me a logical argument, only an emotional one. I watched the video, not impressed.
Antonia Bifano-Freeman – Well I consider the fact that Romney, (In Hi Own Words) takes both sides of any stance given him shows that he is a lying sack of *&%$ isn't an emotional argument about his credibility. It is based on his word. Now how is it that you can basically call Biden a hypocrite, BUT you don't have a problem with Romney lying every time he opens his mouth. The man is a pathological liar but he gets a free pass from you? What is the view on lying in the Mormon or any Christian Church? What does that say about your judgement?
Antonia Bifano-Freeman – Biden & Obama buried the Middle Class? Your grasp of facts is even more questionable if you're going to take that stance. You blame Obama & Biden for causing the ruined economy? So apparently you give the Bush Administration a pass for driving the economy into the ground and almost causing a great depression because of his tax cuts, his wars that weren't funded, the policies that allowed bankers and accountants to crash the mortgage. Yes indeed you fiscal conservatives are definitely the thinking people of the world. LOL!
Biden said it himself. And he told Ryan, "I always mean what I say." And what exactly IS their plan to improve the economy? Raising taxes on the middle class by allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire, eliminating the payroll tax holiday and of course by allowing all the various taxes in Obamacare to take place. Somehow, I don't think that will help. Oh, what about eliminating the Earned Income Credit? That should do it, right? Yeah, no, I haven't heard a plan from them.
Bush didn't really have a lot of choices about going to war with Saddam Hussein. Hussein ATTACKED Kuwait. Took it over. Remember Hitler? He started with Czechoslovakia, then invaded Poland, then Denmark, then Norway. What makes you think Saddam would have stopped with Kuwait? Because he said so? Hitler said the same thing after invading Poland. And gee, didn't Obama authorize us leading Coalition forces in overthrowing Gahdafi?
Does the Bush Administration get a pass? Not entirely, but then neither does the Democratic Congress that took over both branches in 2007.
P.S. the policies that allowed bankers to crash the housing industry were passed by Clinton, as was NAFTA. Oh, and how's the Durbin act working out for you? It doubled my credit card interest rates, and I wound up having to jump through hoops twice in one year to maintain my 'free checking' because my employer doesn't offer direct deposit.
Guess you're not studying history in college. Pity…you know what they say about people that don't learn from the lessons of history.
Antonia Bifano-Freeman – You didn't listen to Biden very well did you? During the debate Biden said the Obama wants to extend those expiring tax cuts only for income below $250,000. Now if your definition of the middle class are those earning over $250,000 I'd question how good you are at your job.
What decade are you living in? Did you totally miss George W Bush taking the United States into 2 wars AND cutting taxes at the same time? Talk about irresponsible accounting by that administration. At least when Daddy Bush took us into Kuwait he raised taxes.
It's about time that the Regressive Socialists learn from history, or be doomed to repeat it. I always find it both entertaining and disconcerting at the same time that socialists prattle on about the virtues of their ideology! I guess they haven't gotten the memo yet that their ideology has failed everywhere it's been attempted! Oh, if history has been a good teacher, Regressive Socialists have always been thrown under the bus whenever Communists have come to power. The communists always consider Regressive Socialists to be "useful idiots…" Don't be a useful idiot!
Um, if your boy Bill Clinton hadn't have screwed the pooch, and did his job as Commander in Chief, Hussain would've been contained, and we wouldn't have gone back into Iraq. As someone that was in Kuwait in 1991 and Iraq in 2003 and 2004, I can tell you that those wars were necessary. Contrary to your Regressive Socialist mindset that dictates to the rest of us that you think you're somewhat smarter than we are, war is often necessary! Don't know whether or not you're aware of this, but the majority of wars that America has been involved in were started by Democrats!!! Hell, even Comrade Barack escalated the war in Afghanistan! No my dear, my wife and I listened to Biden and Obama… needless to say we don't like what either of them has to say. They've had their chance to ruin our nation; it's time for them to go!!!
Oh Kim, you're proof positive that our public universities have been infiltrated by Socialists!!! So, are you one of those "occupier types" that think we Americans owe you a job just because you went to college? Did you get a degree in anything useful outside of academia? Probably not!!! Little word of advice… don't get a liberal-arts degree unless you plan on working in academia!!! I say this because I'm so tired of hearing liberal-arts majors pissing and moaning about how they can't pay off their student loans!!! I went to Stanford… I still owe a lot of money, but I'm not looking to the government for a handout!!! I'm paying it off myself, without government assistance!!! Does this make me superior to you? Of course it does… because I take responsibility for my actions! You should try to do the same if you haven't already!!!
Dude, get over yourself!!! It's people like you, that have screwed up Oregon!!! Your tax and regulation schemes have killed any economic growth in Oregon, and have driven away business. Portland dictates to the state how things should be, and as a result, the rest of the state stagnates! But, this is kind of expected from someone that attended the OUS!!! No independent thought is allowed, or encouraged… unless it's approved by your teachers!!! Dude, you wasted your money at OSU!!! At least this guy you're prattling on about is supplying jobs to people; what has your ilk done here in Oregon besides kill jobs and chase business away? Absolutely nothing!!!
Kim, did your indoctrination at GSU include anything about Capitalism? I know you've probably read the Communist Manifesto numerous times, maybe even Das Kapital… But, in the real world, it's people like this guy that supplies jobs! If it's his company (and it's privately held…), he can do whatever he wants with/to it!!! It's his… and his employees are always free to leave! That's the beauty of true capitalism: freedom of choice! Not the kind of choice that your ilk allows! Remember, true freedom flourishes when government is less intrusive!!!
Kim… critical thinking? I don't think you have a clue as to what critical thinking means or is. The only thing you've been "critical" of, is of someone that started his own business from the ground up. Decisions have to be made when government regulations have become crippling! In order for him to stay in business, some changes are going to be made, and the only way to stop those changes is for the regulations to be repealed. Oh, one last thing… whenever you debate someone, stick to the facts! For, as soon as you resort to name calling, you lose the argument!!! Another thing, you should try reading the text for the Affordable Care Act of 2010… after you've done this, return and tell us how taxes aren't being increased on the Middle Class…
If you want the text… here it is: http://www.healthcare.gov/law/full/
I listened to Biden. I listened when he failed to mention the Affordable Care Act, and he didn't say a word about keeping the Payroll Tax Holiday either. His buddy Pelosi made it clear that the holiday WILL be allowed to expire. And ALL of the cuts are currently set to expire.
As my husband told you. Go read the ACA and then tell me how that ISN'T raising taxes on the middle class? I've read the tax increases in the ACA, and many will hit the middle class. For example, are you aware there is a "Tanning Tax" established by the ACA? This is a 10- percent excise tax on indoor UV tanning services". I know a fair number of middle class women that like to tan, as the long Oregon rainy season makes women long to keep their 'summer color'. I personally shun it, and have for years. Then there's the raising of the medical deduction from 7.5% of AGI to 10% of AGI. Again, another potential tax on the middle class.
Oh, and you didn't answer the question, so I'll repeat it: How does Obama plan to reduce the deficit and when will unemployment fall below 6%? Biden's answer was a vague "eventually".
Aaron Freeman – I paid off all my school loans for both undergraduate and graduate degrees. Does that make me superior to you? WHY OF COURSE IT DOES!
So you are a Vet and you didn't take any government assistance to go to school? Really? If you didn't then maybe you aren't as smart as you think you are because you certainly earned to have at least part of your education paid for by your service to the country.
Oh Aaron, excuse me but maybe if someone had done their job in 1991 there wouldn't have been a Hussain for anyone after Bush Senior to even deal with so you can't blame that on Clinton now can you really?
What the hell is your point about Democrats starting more wars than Republicans anyway? Are you suggesting that for instance we shouldn't have entered WWII? Or maybe we shouldn't have been in WWI? The second Iraq war was sold to the US public based on false and fabricated information. I didn't believe that was ever the reason we went in there and we now know it's true. In fact going into Iraq was a distraction from hunting down Osama Bin Lauden in Afghanistan, which of course is something that finally happened under President Obama.
Aaron Freeman – Aaron if I see someone make an asinine "Birther" comment I'm going to call it as I see it. Anyone who believes that Obama wasn't born in the United States is a Tea Bagger to me and I make no apology for pointing it out. Perhaps if you followed all of the comments here in the chronological order they appeared you would see that others were calling the President names. So it's OK by you for them to call Obama a commie from Kenya and I can't respond in kind? Get real man . . . So do you believe that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii or are you at least smart enough to realize he is a US citizen?
Aaron Freeman – Oh look who is trying to slander me by implying I'm a Communist of Fascist. You know when you debate someone and you resort to name calling you automatically lose your point don't you? Loser! – LOL!
Kim Lindaberry, actually no, it doesn't… you went to a socialist public school, and I attended Stanford… enough said! I bet anyone can get into GSU, but not everyone can get into Stanford… so stop being a smug, arrogant socialist; you're far from being smart. I have yet to meet an intelligent socialist (you're proof of that!)… Uncle Sam paid for my undergrad, and I paid for my grad school using "private" funds. No Stafford Loans for me. So, I guess, based on that info, this makes me superior to you. As for us doing our job in 1991, we did our job; the socialists in Congress didn't want us to march to the Turkish border. They wanted us to agree to the UN mandate for the liberation of Kuwait. As for the invasion of Iraq in 2003, the invasion was based upon intel that Hussein had something that he he shouldn't have had: weapons grade nuclear material, and biological weapons. We went into Iraq with UN approval, so don't prattle on about how we did this unilaterally!!! But, for your info, we found tons of proof that he had weapons grade plutonium, as well as the mobile biological weapons labs. We could have ended the foreign fighter problem, but socialists like Nancy Pelosi kept delaying offensive combat operations in Fallujah. Stop using socialist talking points, and think for yourself!!! Oh, and bin Laden has been dead since 2003, killed during the fight for Tora Bora by a fellow Marine Scout/Sniper, but you're not supposed to know that!!! And, as for your comment about Clinton, yes he screwed the pooch. He failed at containing Hussein, thus making it necessary enforce the UN Sanctions. He failed to get bin Laden when the Sudanese handed him to us on a silver platter in 1994. Because of this failure, 2 of our embassies in Africa were bombed by al Qaida, as well as one of our ships, the USS Cole… They must not do a good job of teaching history at GSU; try Stanford next time, you might actually learn something! Also, my wife asks why you're being evasive, and refusing to answer her questions? Is it because you're ignorant of certain facts (whether deliberately or otherwise…), or because your talking points don't answer the questions? Again, when you resort to insults during intellectual discourse, you lose the debate… regardless of whatever facts you have!!!
Oh, pointing out the obvious isn't an insult, it's simply stating facts… so, if you think that my statements are pajoritive in nature, then you're entitled to your opinion! My friends that died in combat all say "you're welcome!"
Antonia Bifano-Freeman – Excuse me but I didn't know Pelosi was a part of the debate with Ryan. – I never saw your question about 6% unemployment but I'd say that considering that the Republicans have been blocking jobs bills I'd say that Obama's Administration has done a good job making a steady but slow reduction in unemployment and recently got it down below 8%. It's below what the unemployment numbers were when GW Bush left office.
Hey Kim… did you hear about a large state failing to report their unemployment numbers to the Labour Dept? No? I figured as much! CA EDD (the UI agency for California…), failed to report their numbers for September; I wonder why? Is is because this may be Comrade Barack's October Surprise? I hate to say it, but those numbers that the Labour Dept have released are disingenuous at best! You should be grateful that the Republicans have killed Obama Jobs bills! The last thing we need is another faux stimulus package! $6 trillion in debt is a bit much… Oh, for the record, no government has taxed it's way into prosperity… ever!!! Does it comfort you that if Comrade Barack is re-elected to a second term, he'll take care of you? You sound like the living embodiment of Julia (remember Comrade Barack's poster child? If not, here's a blast from the recent past: http://www.barackobama.com/life-of-julia/)!!! Here's another blast from the past, a quote from Margaret Thatcher… "socialism is great until the money runs out!"
Aaron Freeman – So you went to Standford, La Dee Ffrickin' DA! And you are proof going to a top rated university doesn't necessarily make someone smart.
And what school did your wife attend? Hum, now would she be considered a socalist just because she attended state school like maybe Cal State? Does she know that you feel she is inferior to you because she didn't go to "Standford" That ought to make interesting pillow talk tonight
OMG did you just leak Top Secret information? Man you could go to jail . . . Yeah, I'm sure GW Bush didn't want it to leak out that Osama Bin Lauden was killed under his watch, because you know it might make him look good. Remember GW, the dufus that said "Mission Accomplished" Yeah I'm sure he would pass up that opportunity. Tell it to Team Seal Six. Look who's delusional now. So going to Standford doesn't necessarily make one smart does it?
Aaron Freeman – Oh Jesus Christ, another right wing conspiracy theory. Gimme a break. Again you prove that going to Standford doesn't make someone smart
She went to CSU Sacramento by choice… she chose not to go to Stanford, but she could've gotten into Stanford with ease! You say la dee da to Stanford only because you couldn't get in. Oh fyi, my SAT scores were 10 points shy of a perfect score, so your ignorance is proof that you have no idea of what you speak of. It takes an exceptional student (not a 4.0 GPA or participation in activities… any idiot can do that!!!) to get into Stanford. People of above average intelligence, geniuses… People that are Mensa, Triple 9 Society, or Mega Society (all of these are High IQ societies, of which I'm a member of 2, as is my wife… the upper 2% of the intelligent!) get in with ease! Why? Because we're what they're looking for… future leaders, researchers, and captains of industry. Major corporations like Intel, Nike, HP, Compaq, Google, Yahoo, Cisco Systems, and Sun Microsystems were founded at Stanford. How many multinational corporations were created at GSU? How much research is done at GSU? I can tell you now, that you would have a hard time at Stanford, even though there are several thousand liberal arts majors there. Provided of course, you could get accepted… Me? I'm a computer security consultant, that specialises in intrusion detection, and penetration testing. I've been involved in this since before the term "computer security" existed. I cut my teeth writing source code on an Altair 8880, and have written several applications that I have sold over the years! Stanford recognised this, and offered me a scholarship… a free ride, if you will!!! I rejected all others because I wanted Stanford. As for GW not leaking out the death of bin Laden… well that's kinda obvious; he didn't want the Muslim world rising up in jihad at the time (bin Laden was a hero to the Muslim world at the time…). The CIA had to make it look as though bin Laden was alive. That's called disinformation. Oh, and what I've told you isn't classified material, it's based on intel that I've been able to gather from media sources, and hearsay from military members. That's how intel is usually gathered. Then, the intel analyst does what I did… piece it all together, and present the info to the higher ups… Oh, in case you forgot, SEAL team 6 was killed in combat… convenient, eh? This way, they can't report to the world that the killing of bin Laden was staged. Why else would the government dump the body into the ocean? Too many unanswered questions…
And, for your info, my FSIQ was above 180, placing me well above the 2%. My wife, she tested at the same level, so your insipid attempt at insult falls flat… Education doesn't make you smart; you're right there, and you prove how right you are when you open your mouth! But, being a genius doesn't hurt either…
Aaron Freeman – I still say La Dee Frickin' Da – Listen Brainiac, my SAT scores could have gotten me into MENSA too. So what does that prove? Absolutely nothing. GSU served its purpose. It had what I needed and Standford would not have. It's doubtful that you could have gotten into my undergraduate school because it's doubtful you have the necessary talent to have gotten in. It is one of the top schools in the USA in its area of concentration. At the time of my graduation there were only 500 students in the whole school so if you want to talk exclusive I certainly have you beat there. You probably can't understand why someone that could get into "Mensa" would choose a field like art but I did. Your attempts to mock my education are so much insecurity and false bravado on your part. We're comparing Apples & Oranges here though.
So now all the members of Seal Team 6 are all dead huh? Jeez, maybe you are as smart as you claim to be but what good does that do if you are delusional right wing conspiracy nut? You do realize that a Seal Team like that has more than just the ones who went in after Osama Bin Lauden. Reports are that none of the ones who died in the crash were involved in the raid. I know you will now claim disinformation and this and that but it doesn't mean a thing because you cannot prove to any certainty that what you claim to be true is indeed true. But according to your "logic" GW passed on claiming Bin Lauden was killed because he was afraid of a Muslim Backlash? So I guess Obama has more balls than GW ever had because he was willing to make the claim.
You never answered my question now did you? Do you think Obama was born in Hawaii or not?
Kim, resorting to name calling? I can hook you up with some of my mom's Namenda & Aricept if you are experiencing short term memory loss. Unless of course you don't qualify calling someone a teabagger or birther as name calling…
RisingmidwestMojo Lindner – Don't you remember calling Obama a commie from Kenya? Geez I guess you're suffering from some of that short term memory loss yourself. Maybe you need some of that medication from your mom?
You got it right, I called you a Tea Bagger. If the shoe fits wear it buddy. It's name calling if it isn't true. I don't know how any "intelligent" person can still hold onto that racist belief. But you do so yep, you are a Tea Bagger.
RisingmidwestMojo Lindner – I forgot to add that for your benefit that prior to my previous comment above Arron had told me, 'You know when you debate someone and you resort to name calling you automatically lose your point don't you?' I thought it was very fitting to use his own words right back at him. Seemed rather poetic to me.
RisingmidwestMojo Lindner – In a previous comment down another thread Arron had told me, 'You know when you debate someone and you resort to name calling you automatically lose your point don't you?' I thought it was very fitting to use his own words right back at him. Seemed rather poetic to me.
As for you, don't you remember calling Obama a commie from Kenya? Geez I guess you're suffering from some of that short term memory loss yourself. Maybe you need some of that medication from your mom?
You got it right, I called you a Tea Bagger. If the shoe fits wear it buddy. It's name calling if it isn't true. I don't know how any "intelligent" person can still hold onto that racist belief. But you do so yep, you are a Tea Bagger.
You gotta keep up with all the comments if your going to jump in like that.
Kim Lindaberry… fyi, I didn't call you anything; I stated the obvious… And, as stated previously, stating the obvious isn't name calling, unless you consider this to be pejorative… If you don't want people to call you things that you believe, then maybe you shouldn't believe the things you do. I've read all those things, but I know all those things are fraudulent… it's about time that you see this as well!
Kim Lindaberry, why is it that liberals are so insecure? I mean, if your ideology was as perfect as you'd like to believe, why get so defensive? Again, I haven't called you any names, but I've stated the obvious. You are aware of the duck analogy, right? If it looks, walks, and quacks like a duck then it must be… How is this name calling? "I thought it was very fitting to use his own words right back at him. Seemed rather poetic to me." Really? All you've done, is criticize those that have a different viewpoint than yours. No, you haven't used my words against me; all you've done (unsuccessfully I might add…) is try to use my words against me… Sorry, ain't gonna work!!!
FYI, it isn't the university that makes you smart, as you so ineptly put it… what makes you smart, is innate brilliance. I have yet to see any of that from your comments. When you can offer something of substance beyond talking points, please let us know! It's obvious that you don't believe in critical thinking, unless you define critical thinking as using criticism against someone that has a different viewpoint than yours! Like I said, you show your indoctrination every time you post. As for right wing? Nope… I'm a Libertarian! I believe in limited government, and I'm for the privatisation of numerous government functions.
Aaron Freeman – You never answered my question now did you? Do you think Obama was born in Hawaii or not?
Aaron Freeman – According to the U.S. Libertarian Party, libertarianism is the advocacy of a government that is funded voluntarily and limited to protecting individuals from coercion and violence. So if that definition is correct how on earth do you support the coercion of the votes of these employees by this asinine employer?
As stated before, this is a private business… the owner of the company can do whatever he wants, as long as it doesn't violate the law. Hell, unions coerce their membership to vote Democrat, so what's the difference? If they don't want to work there, they're all free to find work somewhere else! I don't like the fact that there may be coercion involved, but again, if you don't like working for this guy… you're free to go someplace else! That's the beauty of capitalism; it's so great, even the Chinese have embraced capitalism as part of their totalitarian regime! They figure that if the workers are well paid, they'll willingly put up with the government intrusion! Happy consumers mean no revolt!
Aaron Freeman – I knew you were a "Birther" all along. That pretty much sums it all up right there. You live in a fantasy world of conspiracy plots.
I know you claim to be what the CIA would call an analyst so why aren't you working for the CIA? Or did your former job with Tech-Boy Computer Solutions get in the way of that career path?
Ann Rand was a petty, mean-spirited and broken woman who's childhood history made it impossible for her to see the World around her in anything resembling a realistic manner. She was a spoiled brat who saw it all taken away, and instead of looking around her and realizing that the World didn't revolve around her, she spent the rest of her life in what was effectively a sustained temper tantrum, and trying to couch that in pseudo-intellectual terms and a manipulative philosophy meant only to justify her own sense of immoral outrage that she wasn't as inherently entitled as she'd started life believing she was. She was sad, pathetic and hated any theory, belief or philosophy that would have insisted that she acknowledge that anyone else counted in this World. She was a giant ego, with no redeeming social value, no capacity for love and no empathy for any other being. A sociopath with a "big brain" is still a sociopath… trying to turn that into a pseudo-philosophy doesn't make it any less detrimental.
Aaron Freeman – You really don't know anything about art from what I can tell do you? Stanford facilities are pretty minimal to say the least. They are OK but the school certainly doesn't hold the national prestige that the Kansas City Art Institute does. I noticed no Ceramics Department. They have Sculpture but it's pretty basic and it doesn't have a foundry. No Design Department. In my book those are 3 glaring differences and you won't convince me that Stanford come close to what the KCAI offers.
Aaron Freeman – I never said that artist don't belong to Mensa, just that I chose not to pursue that. It appears to me that some Mensa folks just sit around stroking their egos trying to feel superior to those who aren't in Mensa.
Aaron Freeman – I said before, "I know you will now claim disinformation and this and that but it doesn't mean a thing because you cannot prove to any certainty that what you claim to be true is indeed true." and that is exactly what you did. Nothing you said there changes the truth or convinces me you are correct.
Aaron Freeman – "My wife just pointed out that during the attack on the Benghazi consolate, some Muslim stated that they were the revenge of bin Laden!" . . . Yeah, right, as if they needed something like that to attack one of our embassies. That may have been one of their motives but I think it is more likely and plausible that they wanted to celebrate their attack on New York & the Pentagon on 9/11.
No. He has no such right. However, our laws protect his right to free speech and if you read it carefully, he could deny the threat and say that he is stating things as he sees them. I am a small business person following a great corporate career and I am concerned about the misconception that a democracy can be "run" like a business. It cannot. Our democracy is complicated, challenging, and difficult to navigate. But I love it. I proudly wore the uniform during a very unpopular war, went to college on the GI bill while feeding my family on much needed food stamps. Finished school and became very successful in sales and marketing as a corporate officer in healthcare devices. I ought to be Republican – but I'm independent. Mr. Romney has got to show me something other than is impressive ambition. And I've done my research. Trying to defend him is like trying to embrace a cloud. I'm still listening to see what he says through.
And just to address some of the stuff below. ObamaCare is an open book and, because of the business I'm in, I've studied it to death. A company with 5,000 employees and a healthcare plan will not be impacted – whatsoever. Your boss is the one that is threatening – not the guy this blog is about. The easiest place to learn about each and every aspect of ObamaCare is the Kaiser Family Foundation website.
Antonia Bifano-Freeman – Romney's VooDoo Economics will not work. It's not just me saying that, maybe the opinion of this very well known fiscal conservative economist Ben Stein will make some sense to you? I seriously doubt it will convince you to change your mind, but maybe? And its on your favorite Television Network, Fox News – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFZ8h2ygIcg
Maybe he does have something to worry about after all. There is a law in Wisconsin that prohibits this kind of behavior and since his company has a resort in the Wisconsin Dells I think he could be held accountable for these threats after all. Another CEO in Wisconsin may have a similar fate http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/25/1150260/-CEO-who-threatened-workers-if-they-voted-for-Obama-violated-Wisconsin-law.
No