Category: News Author : Duncan Riley Posted: June 8, 2009
Tags : Al Gore, america, cnn, CurrentTV, north korea, reporters
As much as I hate to start a post quoting Ashton Kutcher, his sentiment sums up the outrage in the United States over the jail sentence handed down to two American journalists:
“This should be a national crisis… We have to demand that something be done. This is our country, it’s our military,” Ashton Tweeted on Monday. “I say it’s special ops time… If we can save that Captain from pirates we can save these journalists.”
I am sympathetic to the plight of Laura Ling and Euna Lee, and that it is fair to argue that by western standards, the 12 year sentences doesn’t nearly fit the crime, but lets take a closer look.
Reports are saying that Ling and Lee were taken on the China/ North Korean border where they were “reporting about the trafficking of North Korean women.” But there’s a flaw in that statement: the proximity to the border is irrelevant, because they were arrested inside North Korea. If they had been taken inside China, the “international incident” wouldn’t just involve North Korea and the United States, it would most definitely involve China, who would be outraged about an incursion into its territory by North Korean troops.
So these two “journalists” were arrested inside North Korea, having crossed the border without permission or appropriate paperwork. What if the incident were the other way around: two North Korean “journalists” crossed into the United States, cameras at hand, without paperwork. Better still, substitute North Korean journalist for a muslim journalist.
We already know the answer, and despite the occasional travel brochure suggesting otherwise, Gitmo isn’t overly pleasant for those detained there.
It’s terribly rich for America to complain about two entirely stupid journalists who purposely put themselves in harms way, knowing to well what the consequences might be, while America routinely detains anyone remotely suspected of being a threat, and holds them without trial nor natural justice.
To hold others to such high standards, you yourself practice those standards; when you do not, it can only be considered hypocrisy.
I do hope that Ling and Lee are released, and the issue is resolved. But the incident should be cause to reflect that America is long since dropped the flame when it comes to justice. President Obama promises hope, but every day prisoners at Gitmo do not face trial, nothing really changes.
Jun 8, 2009
Duncan…Last time I checked there was more than one person in America. In fact there are quite a few, and surprisingly they don't all agree with each other.
So quoting Ashton Kutcher as if he speaks for America makes you look rather silly. In fact, why don't you go ask good ol Ashton what he thinks of Gitmo, then your story might have a reason for existing because right now, it screams lazy journalism – if you can even call it that.
Jun 8, 2009
seriously duncan, you are totally wrong in this post. Muslim or Korean journalist would not be subject to these methods. This type of argument is lazy when it doesnt take into account the US's transparency and freedoms and North Korea's human right violations and closed society.
Freedom of the press is something the US has to be proud of, and China and North Korea should take notice.
Jun 8, 2009
who ever wrote this story has their head so far up their A** that they cant hear how stupid they sound in this story. What I would immediatley do as soon as your remove your head from your anis, is clean yourself off, look in the mirror, smile, and stick your head back up your A** for round 2.
Jun 8, 2009
Why are we listening to Ashton Kutcher? The media is portraying a sob story but in the end the US government will figure out a way to negotiate the reporters' release.
Jun 8, 2009
You are completely wrong. According to your scenario, they would be deported. They wouldn't be sent to Gitmo. That's a ridiculous statement.
Jun 8, 2009
Mr. Riley,
You may present a valid argument about the hypocracy of America and you certainly have a right to your opinion. I am compelled to say that I am quite disappointed—and saddened for that matter—that you felt the need to call these women “two entirely stupid journalists.” First and foremost, as a writer putting your thoughts out in public, I would hope that you would be more sensative to and respect of the incredible anguish that the families and friends of these women are going through. There is no need to use such insulting languish to get your bigger point across. Secondly, it is quite discouraging to me that someone with a platform like yourself would use it to call these women stupid. These are two brave individuals who put their lives on the line, driven my a desire to give a voice to voiceless women in North Korea and China who face the most horrendous abuse on a daily basis. If we didn't have “entirely stupid” people like them in this world, slavery would have never been abolished, the monks in Burma who have never been given any attention by the international community, dozens of lives in the Twin Towers who not have been saved by “stupid” firefighters, and the list could go on.
I don't know about you, but I want to see a generation of young people who are willing to put their lives on the line for the sake of the oppressed and the voiceless and the suffering. I want to see leaders in this world who embrace their call to serve and sacrifice rather than to be served and to exploit. If these women were stupid, then we would need to call Jesus and Ghandi and Nelson Mandela and those NYFD heroes stupid.
I have lived my life smart…and safe….and comfortable. I am shamed by these women. And if they are stupid, then I sure as hell want to be stupid too.
Jun 8, 2009
douchebag
Jun 8, 2009
Your article assumes that they were on North Korean territory. I visited China and I've seen what the border between China and North Korea is like with my own eyes (not sure if you have). But seeing the border opened my eyes to the fact that the line of where the border starts and ends isn't actually exact. In fact, what probably happened is that they were in China territory but North Korean soldiers saw them and captured them. Straight kidnapping because of what they were reporting.
Just look at our own country. Illegal immigrants from Mexico pass between states like Texas and California on a daily basis. When you are out on the border there is no definitive line saying where territory starts and ends. There is no guard or legal enforcement that says you are in one country or another. Simply put, the border areas are actually grey zones. Personally, I really believe that they were kidnapped for what they reported. Therefore I think your article is unfair to them despite your statement that you hope they are released.
Jun 9, 2009
Let me start that Duncan Riley's analysis and article is very fair and correct; to the exception of calling the two persons “stupid”: it is true they chose to put their lives on the line and I hardly imagine they were unaware of the risks they took… In hindsight, it would appear that their decision was not all that smart as regards to their immediate future; knowing they would get caught might have changed their decision.
The border line is well established and known – in July of 2002 I drove along the total length of the China/North Korea border on route 202; a mostly dirt road in the forests and hills from MuDanJiang to DanDong, spotting the occasional military radar and antennas camouflaged on the summits. It never crossed my mind that I may have drifted into NK and crossed unknowingly no less than two of the most stringent border check points.
I was driving home and had a good reason to be there, but even though the area is not restricted, I could not say I was feeling completely quiet: I was slightly worried of the important military presence that I was told was there (it is never a pleasant experience to be questioned, even nicely & politely, by the Chinese military) — During the 20H drive I never saw a trooper.
It is absurd to think that the NK military would dare venture and operate into Chinese territory – it is safe to say they were not abducted by the NK army inside China. It is safe to believe that the two reporters were indeed illegally inside NK, conducting illegal activities when they were arrested – they subsequently were judged and punished according to the laws of NK (of which we may disapprove, but law nonetheless).
It is remotely possible that the Chinese authorities handed them over to their NK counterparts; either to avoid the embarrassment or for some obscure power play intended at giving NK a bargaining chip w the US. (Chinese police is known to cooperate with their NK counterparts for the return of NK escapees)
Should it be the case, we must note that it is highly unlikely that any type of cross border smuggling can happen without some sort of collusion with police or military on both sides – attempting to do so would be foolish.
Have the two women been “betrayed” by their local support? have they been “set up” for a reason or another? Has a rival “grey authority” on either side decided to embarrass their opponent? …we will likely never know the full story.
Let's hope that NK agrees to expel them in a not too distant future and that, at that moment, China does not press charges for illegal journalism activities, and falsification of visa application documents.
Jun 9, 2009
Fuck you and the horse you rode in on. These are American citizens, not Terrorists.
Jun 9, 2009
How did this become America's fault? These Women were simply in the wrong place, at the wrong time. And by the way, you can stay the f$#% out of America. You aren't welcome here. We are trying to work our problems out, and your attitude is of the sort that starts wars, not finish them. Go to hell you jerk.
Jun 9, 2009
I can feel the love. You are probably North Korean too. Sexy.
Jun 9, 2009
I think your overall point, at least at the very abstract level, is valid. However, there are a couple of troubling things about your post.
As echoed in some previous comments, the borderline between North Korea and China is nothing like the border between North/South Korea. It is possible that these women were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time through little fault of their own beyond deciding to write the story in the first place.
Furthermore, equating the Gitmo captives to the detained journalists is disingenuous. Currently the North Korean government is playing a high-stakes game of poker with the international community, using both its nuclear arsenal and the well-being of its own constituents as bargaining chips. The underlying motive behind the recent surge in belligerence is the simple fact that North Korea is a failing country and its current leadership (ie Kim Jong Il) needs to maintain its grasp on power. These two journalists' lives are merely chips in a pile to the North Korean government to suit its present needs. I don't see how the United States, for all its faults, mirrors North Korea in this respect.
Jun 9, 2009
I placed a few phone calls to friends in the YanJi area, JiLin province in North China & need to add some distinctions to my previous commentary.
Apparently, there are a few towns at the border that are cross border towns in a sense that they are partly in China and partly in North Korea. I was told that in those towns, the border line is unmarked; inhabitants know where it is, but it may be easy for outsiders not to know & possibly to find themselves on the “wrong” side. Going to these towns require a “special permit” & there are checkpoints on the roads leading into & out.
I do not know if the two journalists were apprehended in one of these places, but, should it be the case, it might help explain the event.
Even though I am not familiar with the specifics of these somewhat special status areas (they exist because of families historically living there, partly in each country), it is unlikely that NK would go after a Chinese permit holder; that is unless they had been reported to the authorities… and this would fit with my previous analysis of rival groups or of persons having a vested interest in protecting their trade.
In reply to WestyWest: Thank you; and no, I am not North Korean.
Jun 9, 2009
At present, the main problem for the two captives is that the “affair” is high profile and in the media – assuming (and that is a big assumption) that NK wanted to let them go, they could not without a loss of face. Two things must be worked out: (1) have the spotlight directed elsewhere; this will happen with time. (2) create the opportunity, excuse, to let them go; this is usually done through negotiations where both parties work at finding a plausible explanation for a resolution that will allow NK (in this case) to look good, and maybe obtain concessions or goods.
The Chinese appear in the best position to conduct these negotiations – I am not a specialist, but is seems from here that the quicker this is no longer on the front pages, the better. (the event was not excessively present in Chinese newspapers).
I do not think their lives is in danger & I do not think they will be mistreated, but I imagine that NK prisons may be a bit Spartan and deprived of comfort. The prospect of maybe two winters there is not something I would be looking for. Let's hope and pray that they are held together, it would be easier on them.
Of course, if the relations with NK deteriorate, all bets are off for an early liberation.
Jun 9, 2009
This is the dumbest article I've read in awhile… Comparing these 2 women to terrorist? Are you kidding me? Those fools were in battle killing troops, in attempts to kill, plot, and destroy innocent people in our land (that has nothing to do with the problems radicals have with the U.S. and you're cool with that? They were captured where the real war should have been (and stayed), against the real enemies (not Iraq), and you have the gause to write this rubbish? So the women were attempting to highlight human trafficking, a big problem globally and thier reward is jail? And you, my idiot, thinks the punishment is appropiate? Wow, lets just hope you never have family caught up in human trafficking and someone dares to stand up for you family and tries to stop it! You are as sad as the words you type. Time to find a new trade because you are failing as a true journalist! God bless you and your family (the women) who are fortunate to not have been sold into sex slavery…
Jun 10, 2009
WOW! I have been saying that all along! Excellent analogies to present your case. Eventually a lamb or two will stray from the path and finally allow their brains to listen to reason, the comments below me are just that lambs afraid to think off their designated track.
Jun 15, 2009
Mr. Riley. I think you make a good point. I think that after these girls are safely home, we should reflect on how we can better treat world citizens in our country, and make immediate changes. Our first priority however, needs to be to bring these girls home.
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
This much we pledge – and more.
–JFK said this. It should mean something to all of us. We need to bring those girls home now.
Jun 22, 2009
As painful as it must be to these young women and their families I have to agree with this article. I told my wife just about the same thing when these journalists were captured. We, or should I say the United States grabbed many people off the streets in Afghanistan years ago put them in Gitmo with absolutely no recourse to either have a lawyer or a trail. The four Uigers (Wegurs) that the US captured were muslem and persecuted in China and the US held them for seven years hoping to pacify China to some extent. These young women are pawns but we have taken the low road and it's come back to bite us in the ass. Yes lets all stand up and scream usa usa usa but our government has held and tourtured people in our name against the constitution and broken every treaty the US has ever signed. We have absolutely no right to bitch and the US can't even put pressure on any other country to help because of our deplorable record.
Yes I believe in the constitution so according to many agencies that makes me a suspected terrorist.
Aug 4, 2009
Wow. You are so incredibly uninformed it’s disgusting. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. Unless you’re just going to take North Korea at it’s word, in which case, read up on NK history. NK is notorious for taking people into custody (or killing them), whether those persons are on NK land or just close to it.
And no, MORON, we would not sentence two NK reporters to 12 years in a labor camp like NK’s, which, if you’ve bothered to read anything about, is basically a death sentence.
Those two journalists are trying to report on human rights issues in the world, which is probably a hell of a lot more than you’ll ever do, spewing your uninformed opinions from the comfort of your home.