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Teacher Tells Student To Take Off Mitt Romney Shirt, Comparing It To KKK Shirt [VIDEO]

Posted: October 4, 2012

Samantha Pawlucy is a 16-year-old sophomore at Charles Carroll High School in Philadelphia, and a Mitt Romney supporter. Friday, on her school’s “dress-down” day, Pawlucy left her uniform at home and wore a pink Mitt Romney/Paul Ryan T-shirt to her Port Richmond district school. According to NBC News, the shirt was a non-issue, until Samantha got to her geometry class.

“The teacher told me to get out of the classroom, I said no,” Samantha reported to NBC News. “She told me to take off my shirt and said that she has another one if I need one. And then the teacher asked me… ‘Are your parents Republican?’ I said, ‘I don’t know.’ She said that’s like her wearing a KKK shirt.” The teacher then allegedly pulled Samantha out into the hall, reports The Inquirer, to “urge other teachers and students to mock her.” The teacher allegedly even took a marker and tried to cross out the names from the girl’s shirt. After trying to throw Samantha out of class, the teacher commented that Carroll is a “Democratic school.”

“I was really embarrassed and shocked. I didn’t think she’d go in the hallway and scream to everyone,” Pawlucy said. “It wasn’t scary, but it felt weird.” Pawlucy’s father, Richard, who registered to vote independent and has no involvement in the Romney campaign, said she made her own political decision to wear the shirt. The 16-year-old said she “decided to wear the shirt after researching the candidate and President Obama and concluding that she’s a Romney supporter.” Samantha’s father, Richard Pawlucy, added that Samantha was “especially interested in Romney’s opposition to partial-birth abortion.”

Pawlucy was so embarrassed by the public humiliation that she did not want to return to school. Her parents set up a meeting with the principal and teacher to discuss the situation, but the teacher stormed out of the meeting, declaring that her comments were just a joke. The school is currently investigating the situation further, but Richard Pawlucy is not convinced the school is taking the matter seriously. “I’m not sure what we’re gonna do from this point,” he said, “I don’t know if I should meet with the school again. I don’t really think the principal is gonna help us on this.”

Fernando Gallard, spokesperson for the district, said that after the official complaint is received, the district will “conduct a series of interviews over the next days, eventually determining whether there is sufficient evidence to move forward with disciplinary action.” As far as Samantha’s actions are concerned, Gallard states that she was within her rights to wear the shirt “on a ‘dress-down’ day where non-uniform clothing ‘within reason’ is permitted.’ ”

“It’s a Constitutional right. It’s freedom of speech,” Gallard added.

Samantha was “shocked” to return to her geometry class on Tuesday and find the teacher still there. The teacher allegedly told the class that she was no longer allowed to make jokes with the students because someone got her in trouble. Pawlucy fled the classroom and spent the rest of the period hiding in the bathroom.

The teacher has currently been transferred to another classroom while the investigation is completed.



Comments


116 Archived Responses to “ Teacher Tells Student To Take Off Mitt Romney Shirt, Comparing It To KKK Shirt [VIDEO] ”

  1. Romney needs to give then free t shirts to wear to school.

  2. Betz Kimble
    Oct 4, 2012

    That teacher was out of line- She owes that student an apology before she gets sent back to Teacher's College and taught some basic rules of how to get along with students-

  3. Jeanie Barnett Bernas
    Oct 4, 2012

    suspend that teacher and get her some counseling.

  4. I would NEVER want my child in this school. I realize the individual teacher said it but the school is not taking it seriously!

  5. That did not happen! Big BS!

  6. fire the bitch.

  7. Tammy Tudor
    Oct 4, 2012

    The teacher crossed the line. Pure and simple. If the shirt was withing school dress code as the story reports than nothing should have been said. It is geometry class not government or debate that her shirt could have even been used as a topic starter. Either way I think it was taken too far and the teacher should be disciplined. That was an adult bullying a student – pure and simple.

  8. Fire the teacher!

  9. If that was my daughter, that teacher would not be coming back to class.

  10. It didn't? Prove it.

  11. Ryan Carranza
    Oct 4, 2012

    Teacher should have known that a child can wear anything they want as long as it doesn't represent hate, violence or reveals entirely too much skin. That's it. Since when has Romney been part of the KKK?

  12. The teacher is a bully and needs to be fired.

  13. Kathee Alexander McCarl
    Oct 4, 2012

    This teacher is a bully and should be fired.

    "She said that’s like her wearing a KKK shirt.” The teacher then allegedly pulled Samantha out into the hall, reports The Inquirer, to “urge other teachers and students to mock her.” The teacher allegedly even took a marker and tried to cross out the names from the girl’s shirt. After trying to throw Samantha out of class, the teacher commented that Carroll is a “Democratic school.”.

    Pulled her out into the hall? Urged others to mock her? Took a marker to cross out the names? If a student had done this to another student, they would have been hauled off to the principal's office, suspended or expelled. What this teacher did was horrific. Why she was back in the classroom the next day is beyond all reason and common sense.

    This type of behavior from a teacher who is in a leadership position is unacceptable, unethical, immoral and wrong. I'm guessing that the reason she wasn't fired is because of the liberal union who probably has weighed in on this situation. If I were this girl's mother, I'd demand her resignation. How can parents teach their kids to respect their elders when adults act like this – especially a teacher?

  14. WOW! This teacher needs a history lessson! I say the teacher needs fired. Not only was the request unreasonable, but that is physical assault when you start to write on the chest of a child especially a girl!

  15. Lyn Overton
    Oct 4, 2012

    Couldn't the teacher just have asked the student to turn the shirt inside out because "message shirts aren't usually allowed in schools or in the work place. Simple solution to me.

  16. Deborah Sutherlin
    Oct 4, 2012

    The child has got right to wear that shirt to school on dress down day the teacher gets wear what ever she want's the kid has the same right's I would see that teacher would never teach in any school in that city or state maybe down south some where they love obama.

  17. Really, So this whole story is a lie?

  18. Suspend and then transfer the teacher!

  19. Love Dove
    Oct 4, 2012

    That's really crazy! Teacher didn't deny it happened, only said she was joking; it happened!

  20. As a college student in my last year of early childhood education I would say that this teacher needs to be fired and not allowed to teach as she not only bullied this girl but also broke the NAEYC Code of Conduct

  21. Wow that's ridiculous, it wasn't until she got in trouble that she said she was joking.

  22. James Payne
    Oct 4, 2012

    The teacher stated that that school was a democratic one. I don't think schools have the right to force political ideas. They should be letting the kids explore the sides and choose. The teacher needs to be disciplined for basically going nuts but was she acting on behalf of the school? If so the problems are bigger

  23. Disgusting! That teacher is stupid and doesn't know what freedom of speech is !!!!

  24. Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

  25. Donna Eubanks Wright
    Oct 4, 2012

    Apparently it DID happen because the teacher stated that she said it as a joke. The teacher should be fired and all teachers who try to push their views on OUR children should also be fired. They are hired to teach our children not push their political, religious, or any other views on to our children!

  26. Well said! As a teacher, we are held to a higher standard and we need to realize that children are to be loved and supported, not ridiculed. Some adults bully as much as children. This teacher was a bully, plain and simple. There is no reason to try to mark on a student's shirt and mock them. Also, to publicly say "I cannot make jokes with students anymore because someone got me in trouble" is VERY unprofessional!

  27. Leslie Pena
    Oct 4, 2012

    You are right there Mathias that teacher would out.

  28. Why? Because you are a teacher & you all lie to protect the bad teachers. I have dealt with teachers like you & her.

  29. Leslie Pena
    Oct 4, 2012

    And you would know this why, You teach somewhere else.

  30. Leslie Pena
    Oct 4, 2012

    She also put her hands on a child, not my child thank God, I would of been in jail.

  31. Leslie Pena
    Oct 4, 2012

    She also put her hands on a child, not my child thank God, I would of been in jail.

  32. Her comment about the KKK? That was a Democratic practice, not Republican. The teacher does not even know her American history. She needs to be removed from the profession, no child should have to endure that kind of treatment, especially someone charged with the responsibility of safeguarding their welfare.

  33. We have too many good teachers out there – let this bad apple go!

  34. If the teacher laid even so much as a finger on the student then a case for assault and battery should be brought against this so-called teacher. This teacher crossed WAY over the line and should not just be suspended but fired before she is jailed on the assault charges.

  35. and the apology needs to be public since she humiliated her publicly

  36. That teacher needs 2 b wrote up and demoted!!!!! What she did was totally out of line!!!!!

  37. The teacher can hang around voting booths and harass voters, wait no lets just fire the idiot!

  38. She should lose her job. Not be disciplined. And if its a school wide problem they all need to be let go.

  39. Kristine Shaw
    Oct 4, 2012

    Couldn't have said it better myself!

  40. Gerard Scott Waite
    Oct 4, 2012

    That's discrimination! FIRE THE TEACHER!

  41. She is bogus its the gurls decision though…

  42. Bilan Bojingles Gomez
    Oct 4, 2012

    Regardless of how I feel about any politician I have no right to tell anyone what kind of shirt they can and can not wear.. that's not freedom.

  43. Aubrey Langlois
    Oct 4, 2012

    It is teachers like this that make most open-minded, intelligent adults with children in school, truly wonder if the system honestly works. It is schools like this one that do not take this entire situation seriously, that is a driving force in why parents are not only losing faith, but losing hope. This teacher wasn't just out of line with the comments, which make nearly NO sense in their entirety, but this teacher crossed a boundary between a student and teacher that should have had her ass canned before the end of school. By the school, not firing the teacher in question, leads me as a mother to not only wonder if a school like that should still be in functioning order, but also that this school should be plastered across America as a place to NOT take your children. A teacher is required to be open-minded, a principle is required to be fair, and a student is allowed SOME liberties provided they fall within certain parameters and don't cross school lines of dress codes, ethics, or morality. If I had been in this girl's shoes, I would have made sure every news broadcasting station had my face and story. I would have gone to national news to make sure that no one forgot me and what I had to say. This story should be plastered more and seen better. This teacher needs to be fired and the story needs to be out.

  44. Nancy Graciela Pippo Ruggeri
    Oct 4, 2012

    FREEDOM of expression…I do not want Romney as my president! but the Teacher has the right to her opinion and the student has the right to wear the tee shirt. Otherwise lets not bother with freedoms, elections and just because a totalitarian facist state! NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!

  45. Fire the teacher

  46. AnnMarie Rinando Koncelik
    Oct 4, 2012

    agreed, let go and investigate the school. what a shame that a student cant get involved and make her own choice. the teacher tried to scribble on her and asked her to remove her shirt. I think she should be charged with harrasement or attempted assault.

  47. As the adult,this teacher used her authority to bully a child. Whether we agree politically or not… this young lady made a brave statement and was then attacked for it.

  48. Mary Robitaille
    Oct 4, 2012

    another rabid left winger who's brain is infected with viral vitriol.

  49. Although I agree with your sentiment, Bilan, I have to disagree with you. I DO have the right to tell people what shirt they can and can not wear. Like the shirt you are wearing right now. Unacceptable. Take it off immediately! … … Then send me some pictures. :-)

  50. relax people. Bilan is a very good friend of mine and I truely love her deeply. :-)

  51. This teacher needs to be fired! That was bulling!

  52. Darlene Heatter Bogdon
    Oct 4, 2012

    This teacher should be fired. The teacher has no right to treat this child the way she did and the parents should consider pressing charges against the school.

  53. JuLeah Willson
    Oct 4, 2012

    Teacher waaayyy out of line. Might have been settled if the teacher had used the shirt as a teaching moment leading a class discussion in the pros and cons if the men running…

  54. Wow.

  55. If these comments by the teacher are true, she should be removed from teaching immediately and permanently. Anybody who speaks like that to a student should not be allowed to teach or be near students.

  56. I'm curious, though. I didn't see any corroborating statements by witnesses. Hopefully, that will be published by what I hope is a speedy investigation (I.e., before November 6).

  57. Angela Little Miller that is just what I was thinking. And in blaming the girl for her own mistake, she acted just like a child. Furthermore, you do NOT make on child the center of attention just because you do not agree with their beliefs.

  58. Lyn Overton No, its stepping on the child's rights. No one should have the right to tell another person that they have to hide their political views just because the teacher doesn't agree with them. It was dress down day. She wore a Romney shirt.. she didn't wear short shorts and tank top or a shirt with drug paraphernalia on it.

  59. Crazy person that teacher is.

  60. Its horrible that a teen cant show political intrest because the teacher is so biased.

  61. Mary Downs
    Oct 4, 2012

    fire that teacher,

  62. Turning the shirt inside out is a bad solution Lyn
    The better solution is to discipline the teacher/adult

  63. Maybe the word democratic has a different meaning in this context. Not referring to the political party.

  64. It seems to me that this is bordering on assault when the teacher tried to mark on the girls shirt. The father ought to check with a lawyer on a civil and criminal suit against the teacher and school.

  65. Maybe AB
    Oct 4, 2012

    The article said the teacher, when confronted, stormed out of the room claiming her actions were "just a joke." Well, joke, my foot! Somebody better explain where the punch line is so we can all laugh. How immature!

  66. Sean French
    Oct 4, 2012

    I was always told that it was the Republican Party was the party of Intolerance, Non-Acceptance, and Exclusion, while the Democratic Party was the party of Tolerance, Acceptance, & Inclusion. I am not a republican by ANY means, and I have my issues with how they run their ship, however it would seem to be true about the Democratic Party until the exact moment you disagree with them or give an alternate view. Fire that teacher. This should serve as a cautionary tale to all parents as to what type of mind frame is educating our children. I have two words for you all…HOME SCHOOL!

  67. Sean French
    Oct 4, 2012

    BTW, being a public servant, I demand her name be published!

  68. Yes the teacher was out of line but not anymore than the parents for letting her wear that shirt to school, looks to me like they are trying to make a fast buck off the school.Political shirts of any kind are a big NO NO it is in the code of conduct no clothing that is distracting or offensive to other people.Free speech does not apply to clothing on school grounds they have already ruled on that recently.

  69. yes good idea that way the kids can be arguing like the adults in this country solving nothing and learning nothing. Dress code applies here though I think the teacher should lose her job if anything beyond asking her to change her shirt was said teachers should not be bullies. But I feel this was a stunt encouraged by her parents so they can get some cash from the school .This is why schools are going to uniforms plain shirts and jeans because it is taking of too much instructional time enforcing dress codes!!

  70. Wow! Way to set the example there. Not only did the teacher humiliate the student, she continued to be a bully after the fact. Tacky and unprofessional. What sucks is it looks like a private school, so other parents have to get involved to get that turd fired.

  71. Kathi Mcdonough
    Oct 4, 2012

    Roy, that was funny!

  72. This so called teacher had no. she does not need to teach no more. poor sam all over a shirt. i hate to know how this teacher acts when a student talks during a test

  73. Kathi Mcdonough
    Oct 4, 2012

    Ashleigh, seriously?

  74. Michelle Tait
    Oct 5, 2012

    Teacher definitely should be fired. She ldefinitely was out of line. I'm not a romney supporter but that child had a right to wear what was allowed on dress down day and shouldn't have been bullied especially by a teacher for it. What kind of example was that for the other kids?

  75. Yes Freedom of expression! I'm with you

  76. Yolie Rodriguez
    Oct 5, 2012

    Our standards lately are going to the trash, I never heard so many negative things that teachers are doing these days to the kids all over, and to me it translates to anyone can seem to be a teacher now.. like someone at work said today, a C or a D can also earn you a diploma…. if we keep this up I hate to think were we will be in 10 yrs from now.

  77. Jeff Haycraft
    Oct 5, 2012

    I think a lot of you are all forgetting that the only thing we've heard is the report from a 16-year-old, and the media loves to stir things up. I wasn't there, but I tend to think this was blown a little out of proportion because I find it hard to believe that an individual in a professional setting like this would do/say the things being reported exactly as stated in this article. Also, for all of you calling for the teacher's head and saying he/she should be fired, this is why nobody wants to be a teacher in this country anymore because instead of listening to an adult who is qualified to educate children, everyone always assumes the teacher had to have been in the wrong.

  78. Jeff Haycraft
    Oct 5, 2012

    @ Jenny you do not have "rights" as a minor under the age of 18. Also, public schools are also a place where freedom of speech does not apply in this country.

  79. Jeff Haycraft
    Oct 5, 2012

    Yes we should fire EVERYONE without an official investigation. We shouldn't give them a chance or anything to have witnesses called forth and to hear their side of what happened before making brash actions…oh wait, in addition to Freedom of Speech, thank God we also have due process in the Constitution so that you are protected from just getting fired because a CHILD claims that you did something. Read the freakin Crucible by Arthur Miller

  80. Farntella Graham
    Oct 5, 2012

    she should be fired. she is not fit to be a teacher. she is ignorant. her type of teacher is the reason our kids are not getting a good and solid education.

  81. Bren Lukasiewicz
    Oct 5, 2012

    If this district allows this to go unattended without complete repremand- shame on them and I hope at that point- a lawsuit happen. That is discrimination against this girl- I am going to keep a watch on the outcome and encourage a lawsuit by writing higher authority. Unfortunately- it's a "typical" bullying democrat.,,, who feels threatened by that change that's coming.

  82. actually the parties changed what we consider democrats now would have been republicans now…but either way it has no place being di
    licans now

  83. sorry should say dems then reps now & dat it had no place in that setting with a child or anyone else. every1 has the right to their opinion & freedom of speech

  84. Katherine Ralson
    Oct 5, 2012

    I don't support Romney, but this is ridiculous!

  85. Lyn Overton
    Oct 5, 2012

    If the child had worn a t-shirt from the friendly neighborhood bar would that have been okay too? I agree that the teacher is a bully and needs to be disciplined . . . but the kid's parents could have completely avoided this situation. Obviously the child is not old enough to vote, or to propose that any adult vote for any one in any party.

  86. Brandon Perry
    Oct 5, 2012

    The teacher should write an essay on the importance of tolerance in today's multicultural society. Being a liberal, it SHOULD be easy for her.

  87. The teacher was out of line. There is no reason for anyones' child to be singled out in class. His or her political affiliations is their personal business. The teacher should be terminated (my opinion). She tried to use a marker on the childs' tee shirt which to me constitutes assault, she grabbed the student by the arms to put her out of the class, assault….. would be filing criminal charges. Maybe the school would take it seriously, then. Personally, I am a Democrat, but first and foremost I am a mother and a grandmother.

  88. Mikki Vickrey-Scoville
    Oct 5, 2012

    There are many stupid people in the world. I say this is a great point to stress Samantha, go for it!!!!

  89. Michelle Tait
    Oct 5, 2012

    I don't support Romney either. But this is just going too far.

  90. It would have been better if the teacher had taken that student aside and politely asked her to not wear that sirt to class because it was too distracting.

  91. Aubrey Langlois
    Oct 5, 2012

    I'm not sure who you think you are, but something similar happened to me in high school and when I went to my principle to have him do something about it, the principle actually laughed it off and said that the teacher was within lines to MAKE FUN OF ME(someone who had straight A's, had never gone to detention, was the sports all-star, never cut class, and was an all around perfect student) for having a black t-shirt that said and I quote, "Nixon '08". I was calm and collected about the entire situation and considered it a "haha" joke in class until the teacher touched my boobs to make a point. I do, and will ALWAYS stand by my perfectly clear point, that a teacher is in NO WAY allowed to make fun of, get away with inappropriate behavior, or bully students.

    P.S. The Crucible by Arthur Miller was a play/book/movie about the Salem Witch Trials who were put into action by narrow minded, biased, and prejudiced people that assumed everyone was a witch due to bigotry and wanting what other people had kind of attitudes, so they named the people they didn't like witches. While SOME underlying tones may be of use in your little argument, the whole of the story of the Crucible doesn't quite fit in this situation. Perhaps you need to return to school and take you English courses again.

  92. Do your job and keep your personal opinions out of the classroom.

  93. Julie Macks Fortier
    Oct 5, 2012

    Really??? So much for freedom of speech.

  94. she would have never done that to my kid, never.
    That poor little girl, how dare she.

  95. you need to watch the video, she told her to take the shirt off and compared it to the KKK. Then said she was kidding and the girl should have known that. Really? she wasnt kidding she was trying to cover her ass but it was too late. sorry, way out of linel

  96. Angela Little Miller
    Yep nothing but a bully. Glad that wasnt my kid.

  97. very disgusting!

  98. Anonymous
    Oct 6, 2012

    The "teacher" needs to be FIRED! IMMEDIATELY!

  99. This wonderful little girl desires the right to her thoughts and future adult voting preference, it is sad that bullies in the so called liberal left have taken over the schools and try daily to take over the minds of all Americans!

    For evidence our Lord Jesus the God of Bush { and of Science } has had enough of the mandasity put forth by obama and any other trying to cause the fall of His nation our Lord Swore would be, go to the website at Adam and Eve seed gathering Ministry and on the prophecy and the signs page are the prewritten news events { to prove the researcher/minister of the site has been given the keys/code to the Word of God that has helped him determine when certain events will take place } events of this day written three years ago and more and are the likes of the Japan quake and tidal wave and the DC/Virginia Beach Virginia quake { with more now coming to DC/V.Beach } a quake our Lord brought on the same day as the unveiling of the martin luther king statue in DC! With many other signs prelisted that have come and are coming, also go to the site at Adam and Eve in Action blog wherein are undeniable sounding/waking/gathering links pages and films… much respect to All of Adam and Eve/God's seed Deuteronomy 32:8. http://www.adamandeveseedgatheringministry.com/prophecy_and_the_signs

  100. Fire the teacher. The school district needs to be reminded that racist comments are unacceptable. Issue a statement to have the teacher fired and her credentials voided or "see you in court"! None of this nonsense where the school sends the knucklehead to 'sensitivity training". That won't work. The teacher neeeds to be gone….

  101. Amen to that Michael. A nice hefty lawsuit coupled with an assault charge ought to modify the teacher's behavior. But I doubt it seriously. Fire the racist witch.

  102. Here is that nasty Black Democrat Teacher's personal contact info and please feel free to tell her what you think about her violating that poor student's civil rights.
    by being such a PIG HEADED BULLY!

    Lynette Gaymon
    218 Passmore St.
    Philadelphia, PA 19111.
    (267) 343-5226

    http://www.facebook.com/lynette.gaymon.7

  103. I'm not Romney fan but this teacher was wrong I feel everyone has the right to their opinion. If a teacher dragged my child out of class there would have been more than just a friendly conversation! Oh, and the fact that the teacher had something to say when the child came in the class shows this person is nothing but a child herself. That was just another reason she should no longer have a job.

  104. She shouldn't have worn it to school. The teacher was retarded, but children don't have free speech. There's a long list of things children shouldn't wear. A good policy is if you can't wear it to work, your child shouldn't wear it to school.

  105. Agreed, but the way it was handled was way out of hand!

  106. Both points are valid: children don't have free speech, especially in school. But if a teacher had pulled that on one of mine, me and her would have words in the parking lot.

  107. That's what I've been saying Akeina Earl lmbo

  108. It's what I've been saying all along the school indoctrinate the students because of the unions to keep their jobs. Never mind having your own opinion, if you notice Obama always talks about union jobs… But when he touts success it's the private sector that wants to tax 40% of .

  109. Toni Roderick Remor
    Oct 18, 2012

    Jesus is real and lives today – the bible is relevant today and tomorrow – living by faith in a power greater than myself – if you're right I have nothing to lose but if I'm right you have everything to lose my dear – ill pray for you Lauren. You belong to God's chosen people. Amen

  110. Nope. Living by faith is believing without evidence. Which is stupid. Ahh, the old Pascals Wager fallacy. You think I have never heard that one before? Don't waste your time praying to air for me. Spend your valuable time doing actual things that help people here and now.

  111. Toni Roderick Remor
    Oct 18, 2012

    I do Lauren with money and my time because that is what my faith teaches – but it's not by good works we are saved but rather by faith. I'm glad you believe in helping others – this world needs more doers. Best Wishes

  112. This girl is rad. I want to be her when I grow up.

  113. We are all born in sin…..we ALL…would live very, very selfish without hearing the words of the Bible on expectations or reward. NONE of us would know right or wrong if it were not for the Bible. That is a fact!! Even you Lauren! Example: How do you KNOW the Bible tells us to do these things? Hummmmm???? Interesting! Did you read it, did you hear rumors, did you just assume??

  114. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. So you believe that all the people that are living and already dead that did not believe in the bible or what you believed didn't know right from wrong?! So Gandhi, Confucius, the Dali Lama, George Washington (deist) are not good people? You are insane! Yes I have read the bible. Do you really think that people in this country do not know some of the bible? We are indoctrinated as children. Some of us grow up and stop believing in fairy tales and some of us only stop believing in unicorns and Santa but believe in Jesus and god and think those that don't are the crazy ones. Do you believe in Santa? What do you think happened before the bible was written? What about all those people? You think none of them knew right from wrong? LOL. If that was true, then we would have killed each other into extinction before we were even able to write the bible.

    And I find the bible grotesque. So this book that you claim teaches only good. How do you feel about slavery. Because the god of the bible condones it. Not only does it condone slavery but it teaches the slave owners how much they can beat their slaves. How about murder? Do you like murder? Because the bible tells you to kill non-believers, unruly children, witches, and people that work on the Sabbath. Are these good things? How about treating women like property? How about concubines? Are these good? Would you go out and burn whole cities to the ground if the people there don't believe in the bible and it's god? Including the animals?