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Okay President Obama, it’s time to get out of the healthcare business – all of it

Unfortunately, the President’s mind doesn’t look like this.

Certainly, it’s the greatest political defeat of any president in recent memory – having what he banked his entire presidency on fail within 12 months of being elected.

This president isn’t one that takes a message from the public. The public was overwhelmingly against public run health care, and has been for the last two decades – Hillary Clinton tried this years ago, and most of the nations’ social programs were created under the guise of repairing the economy 60 years ago, when they were really about pandering to a public while creating the sort of government (socialism – under Roosevelt) that the nation would come to fear and hate over the next 40. Yes, Roosevelt was a socialist – a self-proclaimed one at that, and Roosevelt

This president will continue to pursue his agenda, mostly because while he may have been in touch with a pulse (or something) during the campaign, he’s exhibited all the signs of being completely tone deaf to the will of the people since taking office. He has the lowest approval rating for any president at this stage in the presidency. His willingness to pursue policies that the citizens of his republic do not want is part of the problem.

I agree – we don’t need social security and we don’t need medicare or medicaid. We need tort reform in healthcare. We need technology making the business of healthcare more efficient. We need people willing to fork over the $50 bucks a month it requires to get a health care plan – incidentally, about the same price as your average phone bill, a meal for two at a nice restaurant or half the cost of the average cable bill.

I have a family of four. We pay $200 a month for healthcare (and yes, now I’m finally covered), and almost no ailment we’ve had over the last two years of having health coverage hasn’t been covered.

$200 a month is the same amortized monthly cost as my laptop. It’s about $20 more than my average electric bill in the winter. It’s about the same as a car payment for a used car.

Yes, it’s a big enough amount that I feel it every month. I can buy an xBox or netbook every month, or I can have healthcare for my family.

Health isn’t a right. It’s something you hafta work for. Not everyone has good health by default. Some people are naturally fat. Some have bad teeth. Some have genetic defects. Some people lose a limb.

Good health isn’t a right. It’s something you work for.

I agree that healthcare is a cost we all must bear to receive decent healthcare.

However, Mark, I don’t know where you live but the $50 a month you cite, I would GLADLY pay to be covered. Up here in New York it would cost $800 to insure myself and my two children per MONTH with a basic plan and no prescriptions. High deductibles. Hell, I’d pay $200 a month easy to insure JUST MYSELF.

The healthcare reform initiative is not about handouts or paying doctors with magic rainbow money that came from a unicorn’s ass. It’s about the cost of basic healthcare far outstripping the means of a typical family.

Yes, I could move out of New York to whatever place magically covers a family of four for $200 a month. I could leave my whole family and friends and life in New York and find some place I could afford healthcare. But what is so wrong with wanting to break up the profiteering and wholesale bankrupting of Americans? I’d rather live where I’m from and pay a reasonable portion of my income to healthcare, so I can go back to skating without worrying about what will happen if I break my leg or sprain something.

It’s insulting you’d assume people like me would rather have the extra $50 a week than be able to see a doctor. It’s not the issue at all, and on some basic level you have to know that. It’s intellectually dishonest.

Not sure where you’re shopping for health insurance, but I haven’t found that many health plans much over $500 a month for full families. The most expensive one we were pitched was $600, and most fell within the $200-400 range.

I’m an experienced bargain shopper, though. It’s sort of my thing.

Still, it’s not hard to shop for price. There’s hundreds of insurance affiliate salespeople out there, and Texas is far from a magical land of cheapness.

Maybe what I said was insulting – I dunno – it’s just how I see it. My wife and I have worked hard to get where I have, and I’ve taken very few handouts in my lifetime.

What I find insulting, and always have, is that the government should tell me that I *must* sacrifice part of my income to health insurance if I don’t wanna (and then pay a penalty if I don’t do it). I find it insulting that others thing they’re entitled to the money I work exceedingly hard for to pay for their health.

It’s not my duty to provide for folks’ privileges, like improved health. I really enjoy knowing you and many of the other folks from the other side of the aisle on this health care debate – so don’t get me wrong. I don’t hate you. I don’t wish you dead. But I’m horribly insulted that you think that my money is better spent on your healthcare than my own kids or my own life. It pisses me off. Your privilege is not my responsibility!

Is there some messed up things about health care in this country? Yes. Can it be fixed? Yes. Will making me pay for your crap at the point of a gun fix it? No.

How should we pick a proper candidate for public office? Should it be one most principled or most popular? Should it be one reflecting the principles of America’s founding, or the most popular? Would a Sarah Palin be the most principled while a Hannah Montana the most popular? If so, which would be best? In the 19th century, the most principled candidates were the Democrats standing for the founding principles of America. Republicans wanted a more European style. In the 20th century, founding principles vanished. Today, Republicans want to win by avoiding principle. Democrats want to change America, back to an Old World two-class dictatorship, where the few elite rule the many. Obama was elected on popularity. He has led America, as a pied piper, toward a Marxist Paradise like Cuba and North Korea. The unique principles upon which America was founded are vanishing, and so goes individual freedom. Claysamerica.com

“Not sure where you’re shopping for health insurance, but I haven’t found that many health plans much over $500 a month for full families. The most expensive one we were pitched was $600, and most fell within the $200-400 range.”

Long Island, New York. Yes, an expensive area but as a single parent legally I can’t remove my kids to say, Texas, without a lot of wrangling. Again, it’s not a great place to live if people have to upend their lives to get a doctor visit. I will tell you 200-400 to cover a family here is unheard of, and the cost of single person COBRA offered to me last January was $823. Funny, if it wasn’t so tragic. It wasn’t even good insurance, it was GHI.

“I’m an experienced bargain shopper, though. It’s sort of my thing.”

Me too, but what about those who don’t share your brilliance and are poor? They should just suffer and die, for their lack of shopping ninja skills?

“Still, it’s not hard to shop for price. There’s hundreds of insurance affiliate salespeople out there, and Texas is far from a magical land of cheapness.”

A fact you may underestimate not living in New York. Texas sounds, in fact, like a magical land of cheapness.

“Maybe what I said was insulting – I dunno – it’s just how I see it. My wife and I have worked hard to get where I have, and I’ve taken very few handouts in my lifetime.”

It is insulting, because you’re choosing to look at it from an angle of “handouts.” It’s not about handouts, it’s about breaking up government welfare sponsored corporate monopolies. It costs twice what it does in many European countries to administer healthcare here, for substandard care.

I have news for you, Mark, there’s already a hand in your pocket, and it’s not mine, it’s CIGNA and BCBS. And companies like Walmart, that rely on our lax regulations to cover their workforces with Medicaid. I’ve worked hard, too. Really hard. The problem is not that the American people want a handout (again, insulting) it’s that they want to stop insurance companies from squeezing blood from the stone that is the middle class. The saddest part for me is that people like you vote against your own interests.

“What I find insulting, and always have, is that the government should tell me that I *must* sacrifice part of my income to health insurance if I don’t wanna (and then pay a penalty if I don’t do it). I find it insulting that others thing they’re entitled to the money I work exceedingly hard for to pay for their health.”

No one wants YOUR money. We just want it to go to healthcare services and not insurance company a-holes. The insured are also being fleeced.

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“It’s not my duty to provide for folks’ privileges, like improved health.”

You’re still missing the point. If your $200 a month goes to a private or public plan,
fine, debate that. But the fact remains that while you can afford insurance, the majority of self or under employed Americans cannot. It’s out of their reach due to the extensive costs of ADMINISTRATING and not administering healthcare. It’s embarrassing and we’re the only civilized nation that allows sick citizens to die in the streets, go bankrupt and lose everything, because we feel profits are more important than people.

“I really enjoy knowing you and many of the other folks from the other side of the aisle on this health care debate – so don’t get me wrong. I don’t hate you. I don’t wish you dead. But I’m horribly insulted that you think that my money is better spent on your healthcare than my own kids or my own life. It pisses me off. Your privilege is not my responsibility!”

Well, we’re adults. We should be able to discuss this without “hating” people. But if you want to pour more money into the insurance industry, by all means, do so. Why can’t those of us who want a government administered option have that too? It won’t affect your insurance- in fact, it will only make it cheaper.

“Is there some messed up things about health care in this country? Yes. Can it be fixed? Yes. Will making me pay for your crap at the point of a gun fix it? No.”

And for the last time, I don’t want to spend your money covering my kids. I’d like to spend my money covering my kids. But I think that if that comes out to $10K a year, we’re all being fucked. You can ignore it or pretend it’s “laziness” or wanting a handout, but you can’t say a huge number of us (myself included) are being priced out of the market.

Um…not sure where Guest gets his/her info, but it’s just wrong. Now, with that said, I saw this first thing thing this morning and nearly went into orbit, so I avoided looking at it again until now.

The problem here is that the US is a great big country with a great big wide range of viewpoints. No politician will please everyone, so the question is how to get the most people on board and keep the US Chamber of Commerce and its minions at bay. We saw FreedomWorks, the tool of corporate PR in politics, absolutely try to eviscerate health reform this summer by lying through their teeth and trying to scare the beJeebus out of people who already more or less like their health care.

Losing one Senate vote at this point is not the biggest disaster on the planet, particularly since it didn’t look like even with 60 there was going to be enough consensus to foreclose cloture on the committee report. What needs to happen is some serious horsetrading, and some Republicans coming to Jesus instead of playing potsie politics with our lives. If it doesn’t happen, the one who needs to give up everything is the Republican party, who has raised obstructionist, siege mentality politics to an art form.

My COBRA at full price is $1409 for two adults PER MONTH, in California. This is not a cadillac plan, either – it’s a PPO with a lousy network. Since we are both over 45 and have “pre-existing conditions” (aka have lived some of life), there are no “$50 a month” plans for us. Even the bare bones “catastrophic” plans start at $500 each. My premiums increased 26% last November, BTW.

Your numbers are only valid for young, healthy people in cheap markets. But most of the country is not young, healthy, or in cheap markets.

That same cost is what my former employer pays. No wonder our businesses can’t compete – the health insurance industry is sucking our economy dry, and the right wing is helping them.

You are spewing more of the major right wing fallacy that is this: “I’ve got mine, so everything’s fine.” and “I don’t want to pay for anyone else, I’ve got mine and I want to keep it”.

Never mind that if something happens to you, and you can’t work, I will end up paying for your disability and medicare. It’s like the bank bailouts – privatize profits, but socialize risks. You don’t want to do your share, but if something happens, you’ll be right there with your hand out, just like the rest of your selfish ilk.

Bury ObamaCare with Kennedy? That obvious republican made sign is a completely disrespectful comparison to the past Senator from Mass.

Mark,

I’m not sure where you are living, but we get our health insurance from work (more than 1/2 is paid by employer) and it’s $650/month (family of 4). I don’t mean to be dismissive, but one 15 minute appt with a Pediatrician is about $100…and that’s just a check-up when you’re healthy. If you’re sick…diabetes costs about $2000/month and lots of disease states cost more. Seriously, what company are you buying your insurance from…b/c I wanna short their stock. Honestly, if you’re serious about paying $50/mo w/o a GIANT employer subsidy, you should be forewarned…I am in the industry and you should check your policy. I would bet next year’s salary that you’re not really covered…maybe a max of $10K(won’t buy you anything if you’re sick) or something like that.

BTW…LOVE the picture. I wanna see those same women in 5-10years when SS/Medicare runs out of money b/c we failed to act. I wish people would know what is REALLY going on instead of relying on propaganda. It makes me sad.