Posted in: Politics

Arkansas Republican Jon Hubbard Calls Slavery ‘Blessing In Disguise’ For Blacks

Jon Hubbard Thinks Blacks Are Lazy

Slavery was a “blessing in disguise” for blacks; at least that is the message being delivered in a new book by Arkansas Republican State Legislator Jon Hubbard.

In the book titled Letters to the Editor: Confessions of a Frustrated Conservative, it quickly becomes clear that Hubbard believes a majority of African Americans are ignorant, lazy, and even thankful that their people were once slaves.

In one passage, Hubbard writes:

“… the institution of slavery that the black race has long believed to be an abomination upon its people may actually have been a blessing in disguise. The blacks who could endure those conditions and circumstances would someday be rewarded with citizenship in the greatest nation ever established upon the face of the Earth.” (pages 183-89)

While whites entered the country as free citizens unencumbered by religious persecution, Mr. Hubbard somehow believes that blacks needed to be enslaved to receive the same treatment.

The next gem from the book claims that black students are lazy and lack discipline. He writes:

“… one of the stated purposes of school integration was to bring black students up to a level close to that of white students. But, to the great disappointment of everyone, the results of this theory worked exactly in reverse of its intended purpose, and instead of black students rising to the educational levels previously attained by white students, the white students dropped to the level of black students. To make matters worse the lack of discipline and ambition of black students soon became shared by their white classmates, and our educational system has been in a steady decline ever since.” (page 27)

Hubbard then writes:

“Wouldn’t life for blacks in America today be more enjoyable and successful if they would only learn to appreciate the value of a good education?” (page 184)

Further into the book, Hubbard writes that blacks were lucky to be enslaved because otherwise they would be living in Africa today, a continent that has continued to fight through civil war, famine, and other horrid conditions.

Eventually, the Arkansas Republican begs the question:

“… will it ever become possible for black people in the United States of America to firmly establish themselves as inclusive and contributing members of society within this country?” (page 187)

The Republican party throughout the 2012 election cycle has fought to attract the very women, black, and Mexican voters it has isolated; unfortunately for the party, comments like those of Jon Hubbard makes it hard to believe that the GOP wants to help anyone that doesn’t perfectly match their own demographic.

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66 Responses to “Arkansas Republican Jon Hubbard Calls Slavery ‘Blessing In Disguise’ For Blacks”

  1. Nico Abella

    This is why I, as a black man, can never, and will never vote Republican. This is how I summed up all Republicans…

  2. Chris Duke

    Muster Jon sur' if y'all needs us'n to be y'all nu butler. Iz a works for a fin ginnymens as you all enny tim. Since Miz Milly we hear quit!

  3. Dea Elmi

    What a disgrace, while conservative by nature and upbringing, creeps like this are exactly why I left the Republican party in the 90's and never looked back. What a disgraceful individual, and tax payers elected him, what does that say about our country? God bless America indeed and rid us of racist creeps like this, he disgusts me.

  4. Rad Rationale

    How is that a Blessing.
    Our fathers & brothers were murdered & sold.
    Stripped away from their families.
    How is that blessing?
    Our mothers & sisters were abused & raped.
    How is that a blessing?
    Our pyches were stripped away.
    How is that a blessing?
    We were made to feel less than a man.
    Taught that we were inferior.
    How is that a blessing?
    Things that were put in place to keep us in check.
    Has caused mental damage.
    Today we still feel the effects.
    How is that a blessing?
    We were lynched & tarred.
    Emotionally, physically & mentally scared.
    How is that a blessing?
    We were branded & sold like cattle.
    Beat with whips like animals.
    How is that a blessing?
    Its not
    It was a curse.

  5. James Johnson

    Funny enough Chris as I was writing this that is almost the exact way I heard his inner dialogue.

  6. Anton Batey

    This should not be that surprising. A big bulk of white people do, indeed, believe that slavery in America was a net positive for Blacks, often saying things like, “you’d be in Africa”. Even worse, I have gotten into many arguments with Blacks over that same issue. I recall a memorable debate I got into with a girl in college who said something to the effect of, “slavery caused most of us to be Christians”, while suggesting it was god’s plan.

  7. Hassen Soonie Baydoun

    Sad… And I am not surprised by the "slavery caused most of us to be Christians" remark, since Christianity is a religion with a slave mentality. Ironically, the Bible was used to justify and legitimize slavery by many white masters during the American slavery era.

  8. Anonymous

    $85 an hour! Seriously I don't know why more people haven't tried this, I work two shifts, 2 hours in the day and 2 in the evening…And what's awesome is I'm working from home so I get more time with my kids. Heres where I went, http://Buzz17.cøm.

  9. Dea Elmi

    In christianity we are chrildren of God and he is a benevolent father, in Islam we are servants or slaves of God even the name Abdullah…abud Allah means servant or slave of God.

  10. Dea Elmi

    I never assumed anything about your religion bro, just when you said that Christianity was an enslaving religion I thought I'd mention that Islam is more so. Jesus saves, and we live in a Republic where there is freedom of religion and I thank God for it. It is possible to be a devout Christian and rational. And further more the constitution guarantees me to refer to my God as you call him, there is only One God and Jesus is his Son as I please. God Bless America, I know I do! Peace!

  11. Dea Elmi

    Hassen Soonie Baydoun I feel sorry for you trying to lamely and pathetically restrict my freedoms, as if you mattered one iota… I am free to believe what I please, vote my conscience and say what I like about God Almighty creator of the Universe, Thank God for that.

  12. Hassen Soonie Baydoun

    @Dea: LOL. Wow… So you claim that you never assumed anything about my religious affiliation, but somehow happened to choose Islam – out of all of the religions in the world – to compare your religion to (when it had nothing to do with the post and made no sense to do so)? Why did you not choose Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, or Shinto? Either you have "Compare-my-religion-to-Islam Torrets" or simply assumed my religious affiliation. "I thought I'd mention that Islam is MORE SO" << Thank you for acknowledging that your religion is a slave religion (and it is for many more reasons, btw), even though you attempted to insinuate that it was not the case in your first comment (hence, contradicting yourself).

    No Dea, I am the one who feels sorry for you for being the hypersensitive and insecure person that you are to the point where you accuse me of "trying to lamely and pathetically restrict [your] freedoms". Ironically, I was exercising my first amendment right in responding to your response to me, and I said nothing to the effect of demanding that you "restrict [your] freedoms". I can't even begin to calculate how many logical fallacies you are guilty of.

    Word of advice to you, Dea: Don't respond to people's comments if you are too sensitive and insecure to have your flawed beliefs challenged by them. Mejores Regads,

  13. CherRhonda Brown

    Okay? Sooo I should be thankful that my ancestors were Raped tortured humiliated beaten and so on and so on……I should be giving thanks and. Shout outs because without Mass'sa and his crew I would be Free?? Uhhh OK?

  14. Dorothy Johnson

    Go on his fb page and tell him how you feel. Also there is a petition on the site for him to step down. I already did both. He needs to get an earfull from everyone .

  15. Dorothy Johnson

    Go on his FB page and tell him. There is a petition at to get him to step down. I already did both.

  16. Dorothy Johnson

    Go on and sign the petition to have him step down.

  17. Ancil Gathers Jr.

    don't fool your self there is a lot more people like this man. this sould tell you how the republican party think of any one that don't meet they color line.i cant for the life how can anyone think that one skin color make him smart or dumb if thah is true I say that the people who call them self white I say that is not true , iam 77 years old I have never, never, seen a white person.if a white person show here I this country the first thing you say look there is a aleni wonder where he came from the next thing you do is call the police catch it.if you insist that you are put your photo up on the net beside a pice of chork. and if you are not like the chork please tell me what color you are.ancil77.

  18. Rayfield A. Waller

    To Dea; being kidnapped from Africa and brought to America to have our heads and penises and testicles cut off by white 'Christians' and for women to have iron masks put on their heads and iron spikes driven through their cheeks and to be raped and burned alive and made to do the work of an entire region (the southern states) for hundreds of years without being paid for our work was NOT a historical pathway to Christianity or to being in 'a republic' and having freedom, silly rabbit. Christianity is an AFRICAN religion, not European, and the great kingdoms of Malui and Ethiopia taught democracy to the Greeks who got raped by the Romans who passed democracy on to the Britons via conquest who drove the pilgrims out who came to America, genocided the natives (who had their own form of democracy, by the way, a lot of which was stolen by the framers of the constitution), which is why kneegrows who have been made destitute, and been tramatized and underdeveloped for all this time are EUROPEANIZED Christians.

  19. Ansar El Muhammad

    Wow. are you not a servant of GOD? You need to read more about Islam, and more about so-called Christianity before you make foolish comments. I'm not into bashing anyone's way of life, whatever works for you, works for you. To play word monopoly to lift your way of worship up, while throwing another's way of worship down, in itself is foolishness. There is not a so-called Religion on this planet that can say they are pure and has not shed blood, if you can find one, inform me. You are a servant of GOD, Knowingly or Unknowingly…

  20. Dea Elmi

    Ansar El Muhammad I don't call your comments foolish, how dare you? We live in a republic where there is freedom of speech and freedom of religon, you are foolish…you don't like it? Leave.. Father Son and Holy Ghost is whom I worship and Jesus the SON OF GOD is whom I choose to freely worship. If you want to forbid me from freely worshiping the ONE and ONLY GOD…begotten not made 3 in 1 thank GOD that in the USA people like you have zero power and shall never have it either. Would die for this. I suggest you go to a 7th century islamic rule monarchy like saudi arabia where you can do fatwas or stone to death women like me. I live in Texas, a STAND YOUR GROUND STATE. I am NOT afraid of you. God bless the US and God bless Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour Messiah and Redeemer. He is coming, are you ready? America love it or leave it.

  21. Dea Elmi

    Also Dorothy Johnson do you see above the random dudes attacking me for my religious choices. I wish they would try and tell me who to worship. One God, 3 in 1 and he is coming. I am a convert, we are the most zealous of them all. I wish they would try to come to my house and cause trouble. Christian, born again, my soul was paid for on the cross. THROUGH HIS STRIPES WE ARE HEALED. While I pray and have compassion for these brothers, won't even call them lost, not right and too respectful. I am praying for them and GOD HELP anyone who tries to mess with a woman in TEXAS and tell her how to vote or WHOM to worship. Signed a rational and compassionate CHRISTIAN, ooh they got under my skin wish they hadn't but they did. LORD HAVE MERCY ON US ALL AND THANK YOU MY LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST.

  22. Dea Elmi

    He doesn't have a fb page Dorothy. I went and looked sent an email though full of scripture rebuking him for his stance. SHAME ON HIM AND SHAME ON THE BLACK BROTHERS HERE ATTACKING ME FOR BEING A CHRISTIAN! I am free to worship whom I choose. I am so incensed. I never censure anyone how dare they???? Grrr.

  23. Dea Elmi

    Rayfield A. Waller I never said it was a European religion and I don't condone slavery, torture or rape. You are the foolish one. Associating white with Christiianty. Jesus was a semite and so am I. But I could be bantu or xhosa or any other tribe. I am a Christian, a convert, I come from an islamic family that was inimical to my free choice. I have had fatwas, relatives not speak to me and cross the street because of my free choice of religion. Don't lecture me. I am not for slavery, or white supremacy, you are silly and foolish. Stop telling me what to believe. Despite the blood and suffering this nation was built on I thiank GOD every day that I was born here and that no man can tell me how to vote, where to live, how to work or how much to earn or whom or how to worship.

    You are silly, weak and a rabbit for attacking a woman, shame on you.

  24. Dea Elmi

    Hassen Soonie Baydoun TROLL AND INTERNET BULLY, my comments are also an exerccise in 1st amendment rights. You don't like it ignore me and don't put me down. BULLY.
    There is nothing you can do to me. I am not intimidated by a pathetic bully like you. Ha!

  25. Dea Elmi

    Here is his website and here is the email I just sent him …

    Comments about Slavery in your book, my protest as a Christian woman, please do us all a favor and withdraw and resign

    Dea Elmi dea***
    2:02 AM (2 minutes ago)

    to hubbard_jon
    I am shocked and appalled by your comments. I am a born again Christian, a conservative republican and it is people like you who cause the most harm in our house, senate and other institutions. You are shameful and wicked and I rebuke you. Slavery was evil as was the holocaust, shame on you sir.
    Resign withdraw and disappear. You are an embarrassment to our great party and we, moderate republicans cannot wait til we wrest the party back from deranged fringe element racist haters like you and bring it to the center.

    You are a public embarrassment to humanity, your state, public office and our great nation. Resign and go away, crawl back to the hole from which you emerged.

    I despise you.

  26. Hassen Soonie Baydoun

    @Dea Elmi: I am not an internet bully, but the fact that you think I am is the biggest compliment and exposes the fact that you are a weak and insecure person deep down. Thank you :)

    You keep talking about rights as if anyone in this post is attempting to take them away. Get real, simpleton! You are an insult to the first amendment, no matter how often you claim to be defending it. A weak, hypersensitive and insecure zealot like yourself cannot handle the fact that the first amendment allows others like myself to intellectually challenge your idiocy whenever you decide to share it on a public forum. It is people like you who are the biggest threat to the first amendment because you don't believe that any speech that you find offensive is free speech.

    I am done responding to you, simpleton. I have given you more time and effort than your minuscule intelligence deserves. Go assume some other people's religious affiliations and accuse them of trying to take away your rights when they intellectually challenge your idiocy. Adios,

  27. Anonymous

    Well it certainly looks like a blessing in disguise for Barack Obama….

  28. Dea Elmi

    yuo are the simpleton, troll and bully. I simply said that if you call CHRISTIANITY a slave like religion islam is even more so and this set off a series of insults. Besidees now calling you a bully I never once said anything against you. It's funny you seem to think that only you can express your opinion, you and those who agree any divergence invites vitriol and insluts. You are the pathetic simpleton. I am free to believe as I choose and diversity of opinion, faith and politics is a good thing. You are a creep and remember as you express yourself so can I. It is you sir who is an insult to freedom. Get a life and open your mind. Christians have a right to be and peacefully express themselves too. Troglodyte.

  29. Dea Elmi

    Yes indeed and I vote and support Barack Obama as there is no other option. I hope he uses this.

  30. Nico Abella

    Thanks Liz. I've always felt that the "Conservatives" were justtrying to conserve the Euro centric, white supremacy beliefs. What else are they really conserving?

  31. Anonymous

    I happen to be a mother with children of African American decent. I also happen to know Jon Hubbard personally and it's terrible how they are trying to portray him. He doesn't have a prejudice bone in his body and has been absolutely kind and caring to my entire family. Those statements had to have been taken out of text or he was referring to what some Arkansans believed many years ago. Being that I have lived in Arkansas for many years, I have seen those bigots' comments but it sure has never been by this wonderful man who is also a former college professor. Shame on all who judge anyone that don't know someone.

  32. Anonymous

    I happen to be a mother with children of African American decent. I also happen to know Jon Hubbard personally and it's terrible how they are trying to portray him. He doesn't have a prejudice bone in his body and has been absolutely kind and caring to my entire family. Those statements had to have been taken out of text or he was referring to what some Arkansans believed many years ago. Being that I have lived in Arkansas for many years, I have seen those bigots' comments but it sure has never been by this wonderful man who is also a former college professor. Shame on all who judge anyone they don't really know.

  33. Anonymous

    The former slave, Booker T. Washington agrees with Hubbard , "…we must acknowledge that, notwithstanding the cruelty and moral wrong of slavery, the ten million Negroes inhabiting this country, who themselves or whose ancestors went through the school of American slavery, are in a stronger and more hopeful condition, materially, intellectually, morally, and religiously, than is true of an equal number of black people in any other portion of the globe." Pg 16, Booker T. Washington, "Up From Slavery".

  34. Rayfield A. Waller

    Hmmmm. The fallacies fly out of BOTH your mouths. No, Hassen, religion is not a 'way of life' it is a scourge on humankind's potential for rational thought, and a source of sickness and violence on the planet. Call me 'foolish' if you want but yes I DO 'bash anyone's way of life' if that way of life involves the crusades, the inquisition, suicide bombing, war in the name of some boob of a god, and the self righteousness of the 'believers'. I am not a believer. I am not trumpeting some religion over some other, I am denouncing ALL of them, and by the way taoism is not a religion. As for you, Dea, what have your genitals got to do with your oafish analysis? Margaret Thatcher is a 'woman'. So what? I'll attack her every chance I get for her crimes against humanity, ditto for Condoleeza Rice, and Ayn Rand. Don't try to hide behind your womanhood–your defense of Christianity is boobish as well as self serving. You don't 'condone' the brutality of your religion? Wow, I guess that refutes everything I described that your fellow slave owning Christians did to African Americans, huh? And you haven't answered my challenge: what do true Christians call the core teachings of Christ?

  35. Dea Elmi

    I meant to say I don't condone the crimes against humanity committed by men in the name of Christianity.
    The main teachings of Jesus Christ and I know you are going to attack me and try to tear me apart over this are love, forgiveness, honoring or worshiping the father through him. I noticed that on these forums it is always the men who are aggressive and want to tear apart other people. I was not hiding behind my being a woman but my original comment was that Islam is a religion of servant hood much more so than Christianity and I was really verbally assaulted and called names by a couple of fellas over that.

    It is always the men who do this. I think we are just different. Different ways of relating and interacting. The articile was about racism, and yet here are a bunch of brown people brow beating one another and trying to one up one another by showing off how smart they are. I never called you any names, not oafish, never questioned your intelligence. I mean honestly… stop. Please. I am entitled to say what I think. I never disputed nor refuted anyone else's assertion. I just added that if someone says that Christianity is a religion of slavery, Islam is much more so and folks want to say I can't do that. Why can't I?

  36. Hassen Soonie Baydoun

    @Rayfield: I hope you are open-minded enough to acknowledge the straw man that you have created. First of all, I was not trumpeting one religion over the other. I was simply denouncing Dea's flawed tactics of taking cheap shots at other religions to make her religion seem more reasonable (when the other religion she mentioned had NOTHING at all to do with the post or conversation, and proved absolutely NOTHING). When I mentioned the other religions, it was only to prove that she chose Islam because she assumed my religious affiliation (which she denied). You totally misinterpreted everything I said and failed to factor in the context. I do not identify with any religion, FYI, and that should have been obvious if you read between the lines. I was simply denouncing Dea for taking plays out of Pat Robertson's playbook.

    I must say that your comment has left me very confused, considering your inbox commending my comments and my response (you must not have read yet) which should have clarified my position and avoided you having to attack the straw man that you created all together.

    Lastly, I am justified in believing that Taoism is a religious belief (

  37. Hassen Soonie Baydoun

    One more thing, Rayfield. I never said anything about religion being a 'way of life' or referred to anyone as 'foolish'. I believe you are mistaking someone else's comment for mine.

  38. Rayfield A. Waller

    My Dear Brother Hassen, I think you ought to go back and re-read what I wrote (with comprehension this time). I was addressing both you and Dea simultaneously because as I said, I feel the two of you were equally fallacious though in differing ways. I won't bother to repeat here what I can tell you are perfectly capable of ascertaining if you but apply yourself a bit more. Dea uttered several very unacceptable and offensive fallacies about the nature of American slavery and Christianity; in her case I think it is lack of sophistication of thought that is responsible–I don't take that as seriously. In your case though I seee how intelligent and discursively brilliant you are, so I have to conclude that it is just a matter of your not being used to many people being able to challenge you intellectually on such specifics as I have raised. You seem a bit spopiled intellectually–for instance the somewhat lame citation of a BBC website (!??) on 'religion' that erroneously lists Taoism under its 'religion' hash tag? Lame. You can do better than that. So why would you think you could dismiss me so easily? I suppose because you are used to getting away with it. My good fellow, I might respect you here if you'd cited Lao=Tzu and the Tao
    Te Ching–actual source material, but had you done so it would be citing a true and generative source rather than the European derivative source, and would have brought to light that Taoism neither focuses upon serevs, nor promotes any deity–a basic requirement for a 'religion' (you seem very confused altogether about religion, Brother–are you certain you are NOT a Christian?). Taosim is a philosophy. Here's one right back at you–a better one:

  39. Rayfield A. Waller

    And before you even try it, The Jade Emperor is not a 'deity'–he is a mythological figure. The distinctions between religion, folklore, myth, philosophy, and 'elightened soul belief' are all very subtle distinctions in Asian cultures and languages, not as gross nor as awkward and absolutist as in the Western tradition, perfectly represented by the adenoidal carping of the BBC and other such Anglo attempts at reducing the complexity of spirituality into the small mediocroty of 'religion'. That is the whole problem with ALL religions, just as Chris Hitchens says in his book, "God is not Great": like obnoxious Washington DC ducks, they think everything revolves around their own asses.

  40. Dea Elmi

    Rayfield A. Waller Before you say again that I lack knowledge or sophstication or understanding about American slavery please know that I am of African origin, raised in Virginia and I know American history very well. I simply choose not to blame God, Jesus the living lord for the weakenses, errors and grave crimes of men. I too despite your having decided and judged me as naive in the best of situations and not intelligent in the worst, *how dare you btw??) Am entitled to air my opinions. I find both you and Mr. Hassan whatever tedious full of yrseles and rather hostile I hate slavery, the holocaust, discrimination, racisim and all the other atrocities committed by men for political & religious reasons. I do however while accepting other people's faiths, expect room at the table for folks like me, Christians. Take your contempt out on the likes of this abomnible fellow who writes apologias for slavery. He is odious and I hope he loses his seat and is vilified for his book and his position. Look down and hate no him. Not me. I never hurt you.

  41. Hassen Soonie Baydoun

    My Dear Brother Rayfield Waller, I appreciate your high regard for me, and I apologize if my response to you was at all offensive – it surely wasn't intended. This argument that we are having is a result of a huge misunderstanding on your part, and I don't mean that in any arrogant way. Let's look at your comment: "No, Hassen, religion is not a 'way of life'…Call me 'foolish' if you want but yes I DO 'bash anyone's way of life'"

  42. Dorothy Johnson

    Dea Elmi he does have a FB page. I think he has it blocked. I had posted something on it as well as others. But, let us just pray for him.

  43. Rayfield A. Waller

    Apologies right back to you, Brother Hassen, I see what you are saying; perhaps I mistook you, not paying close enough attention to the entire discussion string between you and Dea. Please forgive me. But as for Dea, she was wrong in her attempt to answer my question, 'what are the core teachings of Christ'. She answered with several abstractions, as nearly all American 'Christians' do. Well, the protaestants do, not the Catholics, who usually get the answer right: the core teachings of Christ are called THE BEATITUDES. The fact that few protestant Christians can answer this question and yet can expound in great detail on the JUDAIC core principles, THE TEN COMANDMENTS exposews the hollow center of Christian belief in this country. In Africa, where Dea 'comes from' I found many true Christians who genuinely followed the teachings of the great philosopher, Jesus. They knew of his travels, his relationship with Magadalene and of his political beliefs as a sympathiser with the Judeam sicarians (such as Judas–his closest friend). Calling one's self a Christian is not the same thing as being a follower of the great philosopher, anarchist, and revolutionary known as Jesus!

  44. Rayfield A. Waller

    Apologies right back to you, Brother Hassen, I see what you are saying; perhaps I mistook you, not paying close enough attention to the entire discussion string between you and Dea and not giving you the benefit of the doubt in what you said to me as I was critisixzing her. Please forgive me. But as for Dea, I still am critical of her offhandedness and her very assumption that her belief serves to justify her belief (a tautology). She was wrong in her attempt to answer my question, 'what are the core teachings of Christ'. She answered with several lofty abstractions that one can only DERIVE from Jesus' core teachings, as nearly all American 'Christians' do. Well, the protaestants do, not so much the Catholics, who, the devout ones anyway, usually get the answer right: the core teachings of Christ are called THE BEATITUDES. These principles, which he ennunciated in part during his "sermon on the Mount" are very clear, definite, and break decisively from the old, Judaic Covenent. The fact that few protestant Christians (many of whom, particularly in the south and of Baptist persuasion really are suck-up wanna-be-Jews Baptists) cannot answer this question correctly, in terms of doctrines of devinity and yet CAN expound in great detail on the JUDAIC core principles, THE TEN COMANDMENTS, exposes the hollow center of protestant-Christian belief in this country. In Africa, where Dea 'comes from' I found many true Christians who genuinely followed the teachings of the great philosopher, Jesus. They knew of his travels, his relationship with Magadalene, his living out the principles of The Beatitudes, and of his political beliefs as a sympathiser with the Judean sicaria (such as Judas Iscaria(t)–his closest friend, who DID NOT betray Jesus, by the way). In Africa I met the Ethiopian COPTICS–who actually are Christian. If half the so-called 'Christians' in America who out of one side of the mouth praise Amerikkkan 'free markets' and 'democracy' had to live by The Beatitudes, they would be forced to admit the truth: they are not Christians at all, but Mamonites. He would kick their asses out of the temple! Sure, Dea has the right to 'express herself' and to her 'opinions' but facts are still facts. Calling one's self a Christian is not the same thing as being a follower of the great philosopher, anarchist, and revolutionary known as Jesus!

  45. Rayfield A. Waller

    Dea, Brother Hassen's name is HASSEN not HASSAN, and not 'whatever'. Even if you criticize someone, it is civilized to get their name right. I didn't refer to you as "Dee", nor would I just to be contrary. I'm just pointing that out. I have nothing else to say to you, really

  46. Dea Elmi

    why such animus towards me? I made a spelling error due in part for typing fast but also because my laptop was bought overseas and despite all the time I have been using it, some of the letters are placed slightly different from an American keyboard. I just don't understand why so much hostilitty towards me. People are allowed to have differing opinions… this all started when he compared Christianity to a slave like religion and I told him that Islam was more so, not due to his name but due to the fact that I think that. All this is a construct based on a false assumption on his part. And you and him and another gentleman have been extremely hostile towards me. I just don't get it.

  47. Dea Elmi

    Rayfield A. Waller Furthermore if you called me Dee I would not get upset, many people do. I am just not an angry person waiting to pounce on anyone for the tiniest error. While very civil and cordial towards Hassen, going as far as calling him "my dear brother" you have been extremely sharp and nasty to me. Why? Because I have a different opinion? Because I am a Christian? I have been called a simpleton, my thoughts have been referred to as idiocy. While it isn't really hurtful as people who flame out at others on the internet generally aren't that important, I don't understand why so much hostility.

  48. Hassen Soonie Baydoun

    Dea, I want to end this conversation with the ability to say three things: (1) Dea understands how her original comment was wrong and unjustified; (2) Dea understands that no one is attempting to take away her rights by challenging her belief that she decided to share on a public forum; (3) Dea understands that she is just as guilty of hostility and name-calling as her opponents (this one is actually a concession).

    (1) This post is about Christianity and slavery, and my first comment was completely relevant to the topic of the post. Instead of refuting my claims to defend Christianity (as you intended to do), you simply compared your religion to another religion having NOTHING to do with the post, believing that it would make Christianity seem more reasonable. This is called the "Red Herring Fallacy" in the list of logical fallacies that you are guilty of. This is why I accused you of assuming I am Muslim, because you thought that somehow I (an agnostic) would be swayed by your comment because I could be arguing from a Muslim perspective, considering my name is HASSEN. In summary, Islam should have never been brought up because it had no relevance, and it only made you appear shallow and desperate.

    (2) The facts here are that I am a champion of free speech, and I could have never freed my mind from the shackles of religion if it weren't for free speech, so please stop victimizing yourself and making it appear that you are only being harassed because you are a Christian, as opposed to a woman guilty of many logical fallacies. You fail to see that the implications behind you accusing me of being tyrannical and attempting to take away your freedoms are more offensive than anything I have actually called you (which leads me to my next point).

    (3) Your use of the "Red Herring Fallacy" to defend Christianity by comparing it to Islam (which assumes that it is more extreme and backward) is an attack against Muslims who have NOTHING to do with the topic of this post. This told me a lot about your personal character and level of intellect, which is why I responded to your comment with the tone of a smart-ass. However, it was you who escalated the level of personal insult with each response, and even attacked me to the point where I questioned your age. With the exception of my smart-ass approach to your first comment, you are guilty for the escalation of attacks that were not necessary. I will make a concession to you and say that we were both equally guilty for the escalation.

    Anyway, I am finished with this discussion. Thank you all for your contributions, and I have nothing but love for all of you (yes, Dea – including you). I am glad we all contributed to making Mr. Anton Batey regret the day he ever commented on this post lol.

  49. Rayfield A. Waller

    Well said, Brother Hassen, and in the spirit of your openness and out of respect for the largeness of your character, I offer my apologies to Dea for all I have said that hurt her feelings–clearly I failed to reach her if all she has done is feel defensive rather than thoughtful, so Please forgive me, Dea.

  50. Rayfield A. Waller

    I am moved also to thank Anton for inviting all to comment on his posts, which is why I broke into your conversation, Dea and Hassen. He is a model of free speech, and none of the foolishness of we who post on his page has anything to do with his importance as an intellectual! LOL.

  51. Dea Elmi

    No need to apologize, I am just not used to such strongly expressed antipathy towards a complete stranger, and, I am not used to it. I am not someone that is easliy offended but Hassen said do not refer to your God ad benevolent, and before I ever uttered one harsh word I was called foolish, my comments and thought referred to I believe the word was idiocy, foolishness…honestly usually I rise above but all the invective made me want to hurt you back. I never cast any aspersions on your beliefs and ideology please don't do so on mine. We are wonderfully diverse and diversity, of opinion too, matters.

  52. Dea Elmi

    I see that I repeated myself but I have a tricky keyboard and it is late, I meant to say I was suprised by how strongly both you and the harsh Hassen worded your opinions and kind of lashed out at me. I am free to post what I please, if you look back I never once attacked anyone til I was attacked. I can bring up that Islam is more slave like than Christianity, no need to lash out. And I am sorry you don't find me lofty or thoughtful enough for you, I don't write here to show off but to express what I think and feel. Last time I checked I could and I thought it base and not very nice to attack some random woman for doing what you both did, merely express oneself. Take care and be if I can give you some advice, since both you Mr. Hassen had tons for me, advice, admoinshments and reproachful comments…be gentler life is better that way. Ciao.

  53. Dea Elmi

    I've been called silly rabbit, infantile (I question your age, is how mr. Hassen put it) idocy, foolishness…I mean really how can a person not respond in kind. And just because people committed atrocities in the name of Christianity, I am African so I know well the cost of slavery, we are still reeling from it here in the US and elsewhere, just because I am a Christian does not make me illogical, or an idiot or silly or worse. Respect is important and I must say after all the name calling I was subjected to something in me snapped and I gave back some of the ill will, I should have simply risen above.

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