Atheists are working over-time to deliver their message to folks headed to the Democratic National Convention this year. If you find yourself in the area, you’ll be treated to billboards that aren’t exactly complimentary of religion.
The group, American Atheists, are putting up billboards for a month in Charlotte, North Carolina that specifically target the religions of President Barack Obama (Christian) and GOP presidential hopeful Mitt Romney (Mormon).
“Sadistic God; Useless Savior, 30,000+ Versions of ‘Truth,’ Promotes Hate, Calls it ‘Love,’” says the Christianity version, accompanied by a picture of Jesus’ image on toast. “God is a Space Alien, Baptizes Dead People, Big Money, Big Bigotry,” says the Mormonism billboard, along with a picture of a guy in, presumably, special Mormon underwear, notes Newser.
Both billboards feature the line “Atheism: Simply Reasonable,” reports CNN.
“Presidential conventions are for ideas, not ideology – platforms, not platitudes,” said David Silverman, president of American Atheists. “If a person believes stupid things, we have every right to question his or her judgment, and that directly impacts how the nonreligious voter votes.”
“Religion is silly and religion has components that are inherently divisive. … There is no place for any of that in the political system,” he continued.
The reaction? About what you might expect. While religious figures don’t exactly hate the billboards, many have scoffed at what they perceive to be a poor understanding of faith on the part of American Atheists. Rev. James Martin, a Jesuit priest and author, told CNN that “The American Atheists need to go back to school on this one,” pointing out that “as for ‘promoting hate’ they’re doing a bang-up job themselves with that billboard.”
“If this example of adolescent silliness is what atheists mean by being reasonable, then neither Mormons nor other Christians have much to worry about,” said Terryl Givens, a Mormon professor. “When atheists organize to serve the poor and needy of the world, they will be taken more seriously,” calling the group headed by Silverman “petty and vindictive.”
For everyone making comments on our billboards about how we can’t convert religious people by “attacking them:”… fb.me/10vgP0Jow
— American Atheists (@AmericanAtheist) August 13, 2012
The American Atheists group has also put up billboards targeting Jews and Muslims in the past. Silverman has also said that he and his group plan on staging protests at both conventions in addition to the billboards.
I could ask you many questions about this one, but I think I’ll just ask you to share your general thoughts on the group American Atheists and their anti-religious billboards below.
by serving the poor and needy does she mean going to starving 3rd world countries and passing out bibles?
Russian communists were atheists, murdered millions! Chinese communists are atheists, murdered millions! Although the same can be said for the catholic church, murdered millions! I think atheism is another form of religion, a religion of the state, and I definitely DO NOT like their work so far!
I definitely do not agree with their message, however that is the purpose of free will and Freedom of speech. However a dialogue on morality and what keeps people from doing what they like without worry of consequence. Many use their faith to keep them making proper decisions.
There is no right or wrong answer, I just am interested in the alternative opinions.
MIriam – No it does not. It means sending humanitarian aid – where ever it is needed. And if ANYONE wants to stop hate, racism, greed, and "evil" – we need to start with ourselves. We show others by example. We are how we act. Pictures may be worth a thousand words, but actions are priceless.
MIriam – No it does not. It means sending humanitarian aid – where ever it is needed. And if ANYONE wants to stop hate, racism, greed, and "evil" – we need to start with ourselves. We show others by example. We are how we act. Pictures may be worth a thousand words, but actions are priceless.
If it keeps religion out of politics it has accomplished what I would like to see. I do not want either President Obama or Mitt telling me what, when and why to believe.
If it keeps religion out of politics it has accomplished what I would like to see. I do not want either President Obama or Mitt telling me what, when and why to believe.
I'd prefer a completely non religious leader, let's keep logic in the game…I don't ever want another president that says something like Bush did about going to war and how he feels that is what god wanted…how was that not a huge WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!
I deeply believe in this sentence: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". But I think that this must apply in both side, both religious and atheist.
So far no one has dictated what anyone can or will do or believe except for the atheists. All religious groups have lost the right of free expression for who it might offend. If you don't want to read the 10 commandments don't. Walk by it. If you don't want to see a nativity scene don't look. Walk or drive by. Why do I not have the right to express.
I do not believe and i am offended by abortion, my Federal tax dollars have to pay, my rights were taken from me. I do not believe in racial preference but my tax dollars ensure that preference is given.
It appears that on religious people are discriminated against with atheist dictating what is politics.
Agreed and so does Matthew 6.5.8 And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners as to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your father, who is unseen. Then your Father who sees what has been done in secret will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. Pretty cool, in other words religion is private and should be practiced that way and when those spout out loud their beliefs they are nothing but hypocrites. Period, end of story, and it sure doesn't belong in politics only the Constitution does.
As an atheist, I have to say I am appalled. I have always made it a point not to push my religious views and opinions on Christians, and asked that they extend to me the same courtesy. I will not be preached to. I actually envy ppl who believe in A higher power, its scary to not believe in anything. I wish I was able to, but it just seems like a fairy tale that was written at one point to scare children into behaving and then the world ran with it and declared it truth.
Anyway, these billboards make all atheists look like crazy ppl. Just bc I don't believe in god doesn't make me a bad person. I'm still kind to others and follow the golden rule. I just don't do it in the name of a Christ figure. Anyone who knows me knows that I'm a good person.
Tax dollars have never been used to pay for abortions, and here's a little quote about the new health insurance reform for ya "The bill includes an amendment by Rep. Lois Capps, D- Calif., approved by a vote of 30 to 28, which says federal funds cannot be used to pay for abortions in any government-run plan created by the bill. According to Capps, apart from cases of rape or incest, or where abortion is necessary to save the life of the mother, only "private funds from the policyholders' own premiums" could be used to pay for abortions." I don't even know how anyone came to the conclusion that their taxes were paying for abortions? After all it isn't healthcare like viagra is.
These Damn billboards are making me defend myself when no one even provoked me!!!! Ugh just take them down. All atheists do NOT think this is acceptable. It's hypocritical and belligerent.
Taxes have never been used to pay for abortions and here a quote about the new healthcare reform for ya "The bill includes an amendment by Rep. Lois Capps, D- Calif., approved by a vote of 30 to 28, which says federal funds cannot be used to pay for abortions in any government-run plan created by the bill. According to Capps, apart from cases of rape or incest, or where abortion is necessary to save the life of the mother, only "private funds from the policyholders' own premiums" could be used to pay for abortions." So I'm not sure where everyone got the idea they and their self righteousness were paying for abortions after all…it isn't healthcare like viagra.
called planned parenthood
I really appreciate your honest post. I agree no one should be preached to. If someone asks I will share however my life should speak for itself.
Earl I agree my prayers and petition should be in private. What I do for another is between me and them However politics will always be governed by philosophy and beliefs, Atheists, Christian, Hindu, Islam, Judaism. All people will govern by a belief system what we must do is not insist on doctrine.
actually none of the funding that planned parenthood receives goes toward abortion procedures and it never has which is why women going there for an abortion must pay for it out of their own pocket before the procedure is performed. "For more than 30 years, the Hyde Amendment has prevented federal tax dollars from being used to pay for Medicaid abortions. The Hyde Amendment is a rider which has been annually included in the appropriations bill for the Department of Health and Human Services since 1976. It prevents the DHHS from spending tax dollars on abortion." and as I've already cleared up,the new health reform bill will also NOT include abortions. Next…..
Who cares what the atheists say? I don't. They have a right to free speech, but if you are a Christian or a Mormon and you trust in that ideal, then this won't make one bit of difference. It actually makes them look stupid and causes folks who are believers, believe that more deeply.
Who cares what the atheists say? I don't. They have a right to free speech, but if you are a Christian or a Mormon and you trust in that ideal, then this won't make one bit of difference. It actually makes them look stupid and causes folks who are believers, believe that more deeply.
This is the land of the free right? We have the freedom to worship how we want, this includes the president and those running for president and even those putting up the signs! We have men and women dying every day so that we can maintain that right! We need to respect others beliefs instead of crapping on them and remember where we live and why we live here and who gives us the freedom we enjoy every day!
I am open for civil discussion and open to be corrected respectfully.
The Hyde pays for abortions for rape incest and health of mother. The health of the mother is open t interpretation and only the woman and her Dr will know the truth.
Obamacare: per politifact and Romneycare president: "On the federal level, coverage of abortion is a bit more complicated.
Here’s how we’ve explained a similar claim: Since 1976, the federal government has been guided by the Hyde Amendment, a law that prohibits the use of federal funds for abortions except in cases of rape, incest or when the mother's life is in peril. Due to that amendment — which must be renewed every year — abortion services are not provided by Medicaid or in health care plans offered to federal employees and for active and retired military.
But the health care exchanges established by the law raised the question of whether private companies should be allowed to offer abortion coverage (as most already do) when operating through the exchanges. And what if the people buying policies are getting government subsidies to buy insurance?
What resulted was essentially a compromise. When the exchanges begin operating in 2014, some states will ban all abortion coverage entirely for any plan selling on that state’s exchange. Doing so is allowed by a state "opt-out" clause that is part of the health care law. Beyond that, every state must offer at least one plan on its exchange that doesn’t cover abortion. In addition, no private insurer will be forced to cover abortion.
Unless a state exercises the opt-out clause, insurers will be allowed to sell policies on the exchanges that include abortion coverage. To allow this, yet still abide by the Hyde Amendment, sponsors of the bill drafted a procedure to differentiate between dollars spent on abortion coverage and dollars spent for everything else. (Anti-abortion advocates have consistently argued that the approach doesn’t offer strong enough protections to prevent taxpayer funding of abortion.)
The complex funding mechanisms make the question of whether Obamacare covers abortion a little fuzzy. But clearly the law provides some access to the service."
I didn't realize that you didn't want any federal funding to go towards special circumstances such as rape incest or when the mothers health is at stake.In my mind that was exempt from this conversation but I guess I was wrong ,it's not like the government is coming out and advertising abortions for all, it's special circumstances.There was recently a case in Kansas where a 12 year old girl was raped by her uncle and the doctor that performed her abortion got quite a bit of guff for it…really? If you feel that these type of cases should be left to "play out" and that no tax dollars should be spent on them then, there really is no point is going on with this conversation. I will depart by saying this, nothing is black and white,there are many of shades of grey the sooner people realize that the sooner we will stop being divided.
You need to open a history book. The communists that murdered millions, did it for political power and not for land or conversion (the Crusades & The Inquisition) At the time, the church had more political power and those that seeked the power felt they needed to get rid of the church as their political opponent. Was it right? Absolutely not. But it was not a religious war. And in comparison, BILLIONS of people have been murdered because of religion, and more accountable from the Christian denominations.
And Atheism is NOT a religion. Religion is defined as: "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods" by the Oxford dictionary. Atheists do not believe in a god, period. So it is not a religion. It is a belief structure supported by evidence and reason. It is not a faith, since faith is defined as "belief that is not based on proof"
Thank you Suzanne. see…some atheists are still honest, decent ppl and not psycho billboard lunatics lol
I am not saying I don't understand special circumstances I am just pointing out that there are times tax dollars does pay. On the same note however you must understand that some people do not agree with abortion for any reason thus to know your tax dollars does is against their conscience. I for one feel people need not comment toward anyone's personal circumstance as we are not in their shoes nor know anything of their circumstance. It is no one's place to judge only vocalize whether or not they want to share in the cost.
I would just ague by debate it is a therory
Lauren Jaye Siegel uses characteristic non argument techniques to whitewash atheism.
James Pritt Jr. used an insecure reference to atheism as a "religion". And it is this that Lauren Jaye Siegel latched onto, using the Oxford Dictionary definition to "refute" James Pritt Jr. And Lauren Jaye Siegel proceeded, carefully, to acknowledge the fact that supposed atheist forces carried out claimed murderous regimes that at least match what teligious regimes are accused of, if not topping them. That's what Lauren Jaye Siegel sought, a side issue to fixate on to avoid the main issue. Don't expect Lauren Jaye Siegel to adddress atheist records on human rights.
But notice Lauren Jaye Siegel's proud prating of atheism's supposed requirmenet on "proof" to believe something.
Where is their "proof", then, that the story of Christ, as shown on the billboard, is a "myth"? Where is their proof there is no God? They'll weasel by with the patently "scientifically" illegitimate dodge, "You can't prove a negative! The question of the existence of God is so big, there are so many places, in this universe and possibly others, to look that it;'s just too big a project. So we can't answer it! So we can say God doesn't exist without having to provie it because it's just too hard."
I hardly think that Obama is a Christian. If anything he is a Muslim. He is akin to Hitler.
Atheism is not a theory. A theory is defined as: "a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena"
Atheists are not trying to prove a phenomena. They may agree with other theories that do live evolution. But that would make them an evolutionist. But not all Atheists are the same and don't agree on the same scientific theories, or they may have different levels of how much they accept the theories. And we don't try to test anything. We simply ask for proof and if none is provided then we reason that it cannot be true (in the discussion of god and miracles that is). There is a saying in the Atheist community "the burden of proof is on the believer not the skeptic" which means we are not trying to prove there isn't a god. We are asking you to prove there is.
then what is your evidence?
Lauren Jaye Siegel , I would ask then what is your evidence? You are right religion is faith based.
Sought the power, not seeked.
Suzanne – obviously you can't read. There is a saying in the Atheist community "the burden of proof is on the believer, not the skeptic" which means we are not trying to prove there isn't a god. We are asking you to prove there is. I can't prove there is a god OR prove there isn't a god. But it's not my job to prove anything. Believers are the ones claiming that there is most definitely is a god and they can prove it. So we Atheists say ok, prove it. Show it to me. Not trees and animals and babies. Show me a god. Show me a supernatural miracle. You can't
This is really hurtful. I'm an atheist, but I don't force my beliefs on anyone. much less say "who cares what the Christians believe " I care what you believe in and I envy it. it TERRIFIES me too think there is no higher power. its scary to think there is nothing after death. It is certainly NOT my choice. that doesn't make me "stupid" it makes me envy your faith. I'm still a good person, and I still am kind and thoughtful and treat others the way I want to be treated. can you say that? No. it is not kind or "christian like" to judge me as stupid bc I wasn't blessed with faith.
Furthermore, I am actually quite intelligent, and have read the bible many times searching for answers, and it does state that noone has the right to judge another person besides your God glass house.
And this is precisely why I'm not voting for "Mittens." Anyone who has chosen to continue with Mormonism has in my mind, lost the ability to reason and thus, is unfit to dictate the laws and circumstances which others must abide by. As for the whole abortion issue. If enough people wish to end abortion they certainly could, however it would take a large majority to do so. It's not so much religion but rather the voice of the majority who in most cases dictates what is deemed acceptable and unacceptable by law.
I said the atheists specialize in weasling by oin the issue of the existence of God.
In fact, atheism, by it's very nature, says there is no God! That is the definition of God! You cannot be an atheist if you say there may be a God, but we don't have proof there isn't. That is an agnostic. An atheist, being an atheist, by defintion, is saying there is no God. I said they weasel out.
And there is an important point. "Scientifically", if there are two claims, you do not require only one side to prove their claim. Failure of one side to prove their claim is not proof of the other side! The opponents must prove their side!
By denying that atheists insist there is no God and trying to legitimize their not proving it literally proves, by that, that atheists are all liars.
First I can read and here is no need to get personal. You stated, "It is a belief structure supported by evidence and reason. It is not a faith, since faith is defined as "belief that is not based on proof"' So I asked as a participant in dialogue, What is your evidence? I then stated you are right that Christianity is faith based.
Emily you are intelligent. I don't know why people must get personal and attack a participant in what can be good dialogue. Your contribution was enlightening and I would dare to believe what most atheist would say. There is no need to put you r anyone else down to make a point.
Lauren Jaye Siegel The fact that you are an aetheist is neither here nor there to myself and most people. And if your group chooses to put up a sign provoking thought on the subject, by allm eans do so. The problem most people have is that you have chosen to insult other's beliefs with your sign and not promote your own. And for non-aetheists we have as little intrest in your groups mantra on proving there is a god as you have in ours beliefs. But your commmentary to others about their ability or inability to read is more than a little rude, especially given that it is clear from the time stamp on the posts Suzanne had not seen your post before she submitted her own. Insultng billboards that have nothing to do with your beliefs and everything to do with others as well as insulting and condescending comments in public forums does nothing but set your cause back.
I appreciate your post and your point of view. We all have our beliefs and traditions and they all deserve respect.
Don't defend yourself. Every organized group has some jerks or unpleasant people among them that reflects poorly on the rest. Most people know that and understand it – the thing is we need people on both sides to call out poor form because it makes things unpleasant for all of us.
Don't defend yourself. Every organized group has some jerks or unpleasant people among them that reflects poorly on the rest. Most people know that and understand it – the thing is we need people on both sides to call out poor form because it makes things unpleasant for all of us.
You sure do know a lot about abortions and their payment plans. strange…
Thank you Caryn. just bc I CAN'T believe in God doeant mean I'm a devil worshiper. that is absurd. I'm not so defensive toward the ppl defending their faith, they should be proud of it. I'm defending myself against those calling me "stupid." I'm actually very far from it…andl
@Suzanne – My evidence is that there is no evidence for a god. I don't/can't believe that man was made from dust, woman was made from a mans bone, in talking snakes, in a virgin birth, in any of the miracles of Jesus nor the resurrection of someone dead after 3 days. None of these things are possible unless you have faith. My evidence is that none of theses things are possible, have never been repeated and there is no proof of these miracles. Yes, you need faith to believe in these things, but I do not have that, because my mind tells me it is not possible and there is no proof other than people saying it happened. and I don't trust what people say. The problem with people is that they need answers to the unanswerable. So other people come along and provide them with false answers in order to gain trust power and money.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
~Voltaire
If thare is no God than why the hell do you give a damn? seems to me you idiots are putting out a lot of money for somenthing you don't think exists , my comforting thought is that you have to live within your warped mind, may God have mercy on your soul. PS moove to a communist country they don't believe in God ether.
@Caryn – I don't care that you are a Christian or whatever religion you choose to be. And you don't know what I have gone through as an Atheist and how Christians do seem to care and I have bibles thrust in my face and told that I can't possibly be a good person because I don't have a list of rules that tell me how. But this is a public forum and I have as much right to post my thoughts as anyone else. And you think that there are not Christian boards that offend me and people of other faiths (Jews, Shiks, Buddhists, Hindus, Pagans, ect), ? Maybe you should do some research. Here is a little head start: http://www.dangeroustalk.net/billboard-wars.html I guess I shouldn't be offended from being called a monkey, Anti-American, and I really like the one with the kid pointing a gun. Yet none of the Atheist boards are out right "rude" like those. The Atheist boards are letting others know they are not alone and that you can still be good without a god or dogma. If you find that offensive then that is on you. but I don't find that nearly as offensive as the Christian ones.
and the dialog between me and Suzanne is back and forth. I did not double up and then say she didn't fully read my post. Obviously I posted, she asked a question and I felt I had answered that question in the previous post. I'm not psychic and could not know to say she didn't fully read my post before her next post. I felt she hadn't and so I pointed it out. Again, if you don't like that, that is not my problem.
1st president Bush said in an interview: "I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God….Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists." And that is just the tip of the ice burg that Atheists have to live with in this country. It's about time we started sticking up for ourselves and throwing back the same dirt that was thrown at us. It may seem at times like stooping down to a lower level, but after years and years of no change, it's hard not to throw back. But this is defense not offense.
I see that you're a teacher. That's a scary thought considering your comment.
This wasn't printed the first time I tried placing it, so I am placing it again.
I said the atheists specialize in weasling by oin the issue of the existence of God.
In fact, atheism, by it's very nature, says there is no God! That is the definition of God! You cannot be an atheist if you say there may be a God, but we don't have proof there isn't. That is an agnostic. An atheist, being an atheist, by defintion, is saying there is no God. I said they weasel out.
And there is an important point. "Scientifically", if there are two claims, you do not require only one side to prove their claim. Failure of one side to prove their claim is not proof of the other side! The opponents must prove their side, too! Despite what Lauren Jaye Siegel says, atheism isn't saying to believers to prove there is a God, atheism is definitively saying there is no God! That is a claim and they are obligated to prove it!
By denying that atheists insist there is no God and trying to legitimize their not proving it literally proves, by that, that atheists cannot be taken as true.
Atheism is neither the religion of the state, nor a religion at all. It is a lack of religion. And there have been atheist, christian and Muslim totalitarianism regimes.
@ Paul. I'm not sure if I am understanding you correctly but you seem to have contradicted yourself. You say you believe that Atheism is not a religion, but then group it in with religious totalitarianism regimes. The Cold war was not a religious war but a political war. People like to point out that the leaders of that war were Atheist but their purposes were not religiously based. There have been many wars and many deaths due solely to religious persecution.
after reading about republicans wanting to take reproductive rights away what intelligent woman wouldn't?
Lauren Jaye Siegel I find it ironic that you choose to live in a country that was founded on religous prinicpals but yet try to change it to an aetheist country. Seperation of church and state is outlined in the constitution as the government will not sponsor a religon and will function seperately but not as a aetheist group of people performing their government jobs. If you are offended on such a regular basis by life in the US why do you continue to live here? Honestely, if I felt as persecuted as you claim to be I would follow the tradition on my family and move. Either way you seem to be quite young, too young to be as negative as you come across. I truly hope things get better for you.
yes, I realize tax dollars pay for special circumstances as I also mentioned with the quote from my first response, I consider those circumstances exempt from this debate and the people who do actually have an issue with tax dollars paying for these special circumstances are just going to have to come out of the dark ages. I understand there are people who think an incest or rape baby is a "gift" and that if a woman's life is in danger because of a birth then thats gods way, but unfortunately those people are insane
I hope we all realize that the most wonderful people during WWII were, Stalin, Hitler, Mussolinni, Franco and Tito. All brought up Roman Catholic. Before anyone starts, I was brought up, christened and confirmed in my former faith. I am not an atheist, more an agnostic.
@ Caryn – You know it's hard not to be "rude" to someone WHO DOESN'T KNOW HER OWN COUNTRIES HISTORY!!!!! Have you heard of the book, The Age of Reason? You should go do some research. The founding fathers that wrote the Constitution were Deists or Freemasons and were not Christians!!! OYFG! And the Constitution did not mention separation of church and state. But it DOES say: "Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." Meaning that no law may be passed from a religious group that will effect anothers' 1st Amendment rights. In other words, since the Atheists are paying with their own money for the billboards, the government cannot stop them, even if every Christian in America votes it so. Thank you, founding fathers! Go look up the Treaty of Tripoli. You know that the American currency did not originally have In God We Trust until the 1950s and the Pledge of allegiance did not mention god until then as well? So we had almost 200 years with no mention of god on money or in the pledge. Frightened Christians changed it and spat on the graves of the men that desired reason and nobility when they let fear effect every American. And if you know about that time period in America, there was alot of religious prosecution there as well.
And I was born an American and have every right to be here! And I'm 30. Thanks for asking. If that's young, I'll take it as a compliment. And I actually love America and the First Amendment! It comes with the territory that I have to put up with a lot of stupidity, but I still get to point it out which is great fun! The reason I stay and fight is because that is what this country was founded on. Fighting religious persecution and ensuring the rights of ALL not the Majority.
But I love how you tried to skirt the issue here and totally bypass the link I provided with plenty of Christian billboards persecuting Atheists and any other Christian non-believer. You also know that Christians make up only 1/3 of the worlds religion and is therefore not a majority. You should check with other religions and find out their take on those billboards. Either way, you really need a history lesson.
Excuse me. I should have said "ensuring the rights of ALL, Not JUST the the majority".
@Lauren Jaye-Siegel, Have you lived in a communist country?
I am American. What do you think? But I have friends from Romania, and have heard alot of things that no one would like to have to go through. Don't know your point though. I'm sure you will tell me you have. But in that case I would think that you would champion for freedom and protection for all and not just the majority. Or am I mistaken?
The thing is though, people don't understand that politics is a whole separate belief system of its own. I would love to see reason be the guide to winning a political race as well, but in order to vote for someone you have to agree with what they stand for and what that politician stands for is where the belief is. Belief does not only mean that one believes in a deity, it also means that one has to believe in an idea. For example most of the teachings in western society are based off of philosophical idea's of Aristotle, Plato and the rest of those guys. Communism is an idea as well as other forms of government out there in the world.
I somewhat agree that the billboards can seem that stooping to their level. But then I remember all the billboards that I have had to see that attacks me and other Atheists and even those with a theology but one different from Christianity. Yes, two wrongs don't always make a right. But sometimes it just feels good. Especially after decades. But the Boards don't seem so out right crazy to me. Just blasphemous, which will offend some. But some of the Christian boards that I've seen are seriously passed crazy town and into Off Their Rockerville. http://www.dangeroustalk.net/billboard-wars.html
I respect you for your honesty and wish that more people were like you. I see these billboard signs as a complete disrespect and not as a way to point out that religion should be kept out of politics at all. In fact these billboard signs scream demeaning things about religious people. It makes me think, how would those who put up those signs feel if a religious group somewhere out there put up some sign that was disrespectful toward the Atheist community. I understand that we all have freedom of speech in this country, but don't people know that words have consequences? And then people start wondering why they feel like they are being attacked? I wonder where the common sense went when these signs were posted up? I also agree with everyone that no one should have to be preached to, that is why I keep my faith to myself. I don't like to be preached to, I have to deal with Mormons in my neighborhood every time I head outside to go about my day and I don't like it when someone that is outside of my own faith tries to convert me to theirs. This is why I don't do it to other people either. Unless if they like theological conversations then that is usually different.
Lauren Jaye Siegel You are right that I'm going to say that I have lived in a former communist country. I was born in Riga, Latvia and had to celebrate Christmas and Easter in someone's crowded basement. Oh and I know the pagan history behind the two holidays just in case you feel the need to explain. No need to do that. Anyhow, you are right that people were murdered for political power, but the religious out of the bunch were still tortured and murdered under the hands of Atheists, the people who forced them to renounce which ever God they believed in. Sure yeah, they were scared that the church would take power like they saw happen in western Europe but it still does not make it right. This is the reason why some Russian Christian's who survived the reign of communism hate Atheists. Here is one area that you are wrong in though; they did invade to take land.
Even if WWII didn't pitch in to do that they still would have taken all three of the Baltic countries, Poland and just go one after another like that. When other countries started to become communist like Korea and Vietnam, Russia at the time was fully engaged by sending troops and weapons. They invaded Ukraine, Armenia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Azabarjian, I think Turkey and Greece were also under communist rule for quite some time, they went and stopped in Afghanistan, that is how many countries fell under communist rule. And with the help of WWII they went all the way till the middle of Germany (Berlin wall). Usually after seizing a country you can give it back into the hands of that countries people like we did in Italy and France during WWII and more recently in Iraq. The Russians never gave back the countries they invaded. They held them. So there was a lot of territory taken.
And yes I do champion for the freedom and protection of everyone. But it is no longer freedom when your next door neighbor gets the hell sued out of him by a non-believing neighbor just because he chose to practice his faith by putting up a religious display for Christmas in the front yard on the property that he pays for. I don't think that is right. I don't care that we don't have prayer in schools because I too believe that faith should be kept to oneself and not forced but if someone wishes to pray in public on their own account whether they are Christian or of some other religion, they should not have to be penalized for it just because someone that walked by that person all of a sudden got "offended". And it is the same thing with these signs, in this article, they are not signs to help people vote by using reason they are strictly disrespectful toward religious people.
If they wanted to get their message across to help people use reason to vote for a candidate then they should have taken another route to doing that. One that is actually more reasonable instead of putting up a picture of Jesus with a highly offensive phrase at the top of the cross. I'm not even going to bring up the many wrongs that people have done in the past and in the present using the name of God, but Atheists are also far from perfect as well.
Lauren Jaye Siegel You are right that I'm going to say that I have lived in a former communist country. I was born in Riga, Latvia and had to celebrate Christmas and Easter in someone's crowded basement. Oh and I know the pagan history behind the two holidays just in case you feel the need to explain. No need to do that. Anyhow, you are right that people were murdered for political power, but the religious out of the bunch were still tortured and murdered under the hands of Atheists, the people who forced them to renounce which ever God they believed in. Sure yeah, they were scared that the church would take power like they saw happen in western Europe but it still does not make it right. This is the reason why some Russian Christian's who survived the reign of communism hate Atheists. Here is one area that you are wrong in though; they did invade to take land.
Even if WWII didn't pitch in to do that they still would have taken all three of the Baltic countries, Poland and just go one after another like that. When other countries started to become communist like Korea and Vietnam, Russia at the time was fully engaged by sending troops and weapons. They invaded Ukraine, Armenia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Azabarjian, I think Turkey and Greece were also under communist rule for quite some time, they went and stopped in Afghanistan, that is how many countries fell under communist rule. And with the help of WWII they went all the way till the middle of Germany (Berlin wall). Usually after seizing a country you can give it back into the hands of that countries people like we did in Italy and France during WWII and more recently in Iraq. The Russians never gave back the countries they invaded. They held them. So there was a lot of territory taken.
And yes I do champion for the freedom and protection of everyone. But it is no longer freedom when your next door neighbor gets the hell sued out of him by a non-believing neighbor just because he chose to practice his faith by putting up a religious display for Christmas in the front yard on the property that he pays for. I don't think that is right. I don't care that we don't have prayer in schools because I too believe that faith should be kept to oneself and not forced but if someone wishes to pray in public on their own account whether they are Christian or of some other religion, they should not have to be penalized for it just because someone that walked by that person all of a sudden got "offended". And it is the same thing with these signs, in this article, they are not signs to help people vote by using reason they are strictly disrespectful toward religious people.
If they wanted to get their message across to help people use reason to vote for a candidate then they should have taken another route to doing that. One that is actually more reasonable instead of putting up a picture of Jesus with a highly offensive phrase at the top of the cross. I'm not even going to bring up the many wrongs that people have done in the past and in the present using the name of God, but Atheists are also far from perfect as well.
Sorry I don't know why my posts keep showing up in doubles. Hope your not seeing it like this from your end.
First thing is that if you want to start labeling everyone with similar beliefs as the same then I have way more to fear than you do. More Christians have done harm and at a much larger scale than any other religion. And I'm sorry but I don't believe that there are communist leaders that attacked you for the only reason that they hate Christianity and they want everyone to change their religion and they have a dogma that tells them to. We are talking about the difference between those that attack because of religion and no other reason. Not for political power. Not for money. But for the sole reason that their god commanded them to. And when I said fighting for land, I meant like the Crusades and the Holy War were people fought because they believed that a god promised land to them. To say that an Atheist took land due to religion is contradictory. Were there Communist leaders that wanted to invade more people and gain more power? Yes, but this was not because a god told them to, which is what I meant about fighting for land.
And as far as I know, there have not been any lawsuits over Atheists suing over their neighbors houses. The lawsuit I think you might be referring to is one where there was a Nativity scene on government land (paid for by the taxpayers) and the Atheist community said they wanted to put their own sign to represent their beliefs and that Hebrews should be allowed to put a menorah and so on. They believed that if the government agency that allowed the nativity scene was going to allow any religious representation, that they must allow all.
And I don't see how "You know it's a myth" is sooooooooooooo incredible offensive. If it is, it is in the eye of the beholder. But I still say that comes no where close to some of the Christian billboards.
Lol yes Laura I think you are right. I have just never thought of it as something…provoking? Idk the word I'm looking for. l live in the deep south, and ppl are all about Jesus. nobody is RAISED an atheist, the devil turned you into one, so on and so forth. so things, such as billboards, forcing me to see religious messages are just normal to me I guess. I have seen them since I was a kid around here. and if you don't believe in God, well, you just better keep your mouth shut about it. but yes, your correct, I ser their messages and just drive by and go on about my life. now that you have pointed it out, I really don't see a difference either…
LOL. Yeah me too. I was born and raised in Atlanta and my family is actually Jewish! My parents were not very religious but they did observe high holidays and tended to go to Jewish groups like sending me to summer camp that was predominately Jewish and joining the Jewish community center. But it wasn't about religion for us but for being around like minded people. But I never had faith and had to force it on myself. as I grew up and learned that there were others like me, I knew I wasn't alone and "abnormal" and "evil". But growing up in ATL "Jewish" and having peers tell me that Jews killed Jesus and so on, it became more than annoying. At my (public) high school, there wasn't enough student parking so they would have a raffle. But to get a ticket you had to donate to the Christian Athletics Association which was an after school program. And they would put up signs in the hallway that read "Got Jesus?" Not to mention that part of their logo had the confederate flag which I took offense to as well as the African American students. And my sewing teacher would promise her church stocking to donate and students that finished assignments early were expected to help make the stockings. I protests and said I will keep busy and figure out a way to donate to the Jewish community center but I was offended that she wanted to force me to spend school time making something for a religious group! And when I was a food server, I would get those wonderful pamphlets about Jesus instead of a tip. Those were the best. But like you said, we were used to it and learned to keep our mouths shut. But in my opinion it was more out of fear that we did that and not for the sake of peace. I think a lot of the Atheist community members are looking at the Homosexual community as inspiration that we don't have to hide "in the closet" and be fearful of prosecution for who we are.
But I have always said that everybody has the right to their religion and would NEVER want to force anyone to change their beliefs, at least not for me. If they come to the realization on their own, then I am more than willing to embrace them and help support in anyway. And on that note, I would suggest looking up a Atheist group in your area b/c I saw you posts about how you were "terrified" about the nothingness that comes with death. Maybe if you had people in your community to talk to and support you, it might be easier to deal with. I actually just went and joined an Atheist group where I am. I went to meetup.com. You can find alot of groups there. I am also part of a Girls Night Out group and a Chihuahua group. I was where you are at one time, which is why I tried to force religion on myself, and it is not a fun way to live. But it is not even something I consider now. I focus more on living each day to the fullest because I know that I only get a little time here on earth. I don't focus on death and all that anymore. I focus on the living. =)
Emily, have you ever tried to read and study the Bible? I don't mean this is a preachy or condescending way at all…you do seem to be a well-spoken, intelligent young woman. C.S. Lewis was a confirmed non-believer until he decided to research and study the Bible in order to prove Christianity wrong and then he was converted and became a vocal believer. It might change your life
Emily, have you ever tried to read and study the Bible? I don't mean this is a preachy or condescending way at all…you do seem to be a well-spoken, intelligent young woman. C.S. Lewis was a confirmed non-believer until he decided to research and study the Bible in order to prove Christianity wrong and then he was converted and became a vocal believer. It might change your life
Emily, have you ever tried to read and study the Bible? I don't mean this is a preachy or condescending way at all…you do seem to be a well-spoken, intelligent young woman. C.S. Lewis was a confirmed non-believer until he decided to research and study the Bible in order to prove Christianity wrong and then he was converted and became a vocal believer. It might change your life
Karen: yes I have read the bible, many many times, searching for answers. I have been to church alone and cryingng many times after my husband and 2 month old daughter were killed in a car accident when I was 23, BEGGING for my faith. no dice. I loveliter
I love literature and classic novels. in my heart, that is what the bible is now. I was also raised in a roman catholic family, so yes, I am very familiar with the bible, and the study there of.
Your posts just make my heart ache for you. It is very scary to think we're all alone here and this is all there is….. I'm racking my brain trying to think of a book to suggest to you. Can I friend you on FB?
Sure I guess. as long as that book isn't someone else's way to "make me see the light"
I'll be praying for you.
Emily, thank you for your reason and your tolerance, (envy?). The FIRST amendment is, of course all about freedom of religion (and of expression/speech). Sadly, many have come to think of it as freedom FROM religion. Freedom OF religion inherently includes the freedom to have none at all. To each his own. As Christians, we ARE commanded to teach/evangelize but not to FORCE upon others. This is what I do. I don't mind to profess my beliefs, or to talk about faith to those willing to listen, but I'm never pushy about it. I know myself to be too imperfect to be a good teacher, at least by example. What many of the more aggressive atheists should understand is what I have to do in my own life. I have to weigh and decide what portions of my primary religion (Christianity) and my secondary religion (The U.S. Constitution) are compatible and in what ways. I often find myself explaining to people, even my own family, that while my faith tells me something is wrong, we must understand that we infringe upon the rights of other Americans if we try to force our system of beliefs on them. I DO, however, think that if they try to force THEIR system of beliefs on ME, then they are no less in the wrong than I would be, however silly they may think mine are. It IS most assuredly a two-way street, and I think you GET that. They must also understand that church and state are NOT completely separate either, as our social values and mores in western society are based almost entirely on Judeo-Christian beliefs. We must also, I think, separate the man-made constructs of religion with raw faith in the figures of our various scriptures. The things that Christ actually taught were love (for both neighbors and enemies), compassion, generosity, tolerance and peace. Where is the harm in that? None I can see. The evils that men do in the name of God are from misinterpretation and misapplication of those teachings. I figure if an atheist is wrong, they lose BIG. If I am wrong and in my error go through life being good to my fellow man if still isn't a life wasted. I made the journey through life from believer to atheist and back to believer – due to witnessing what I think was a bona-fide miracle and thereby having a 'transcendent' experience. I still have to work at reconciling my faith with my love of science so it isn't impossible. Just sayin'. Thanks again for your attitude and obvious morality – without faith, and have a good day. Whether it means anything to you or not – God bless you.
Jim: yes, envy. I wish I was able to believe that when I die, if I have been a good person, and followed the commandements, I would go to heaven. that was a very lovely thing to believe in, when I believed it. It really is terrifying to think that when you die, that's it. and the thing is, if God is real…it wont matter how good and kind decent I was, or how hard I tried and how many times I prayed, I'm damned anyway. But that's not going to make me live with no morals, just bc I don't believe in the possible "consequences"
The issue is that WITHOUT an atheist's POV being stated, mindless masses won't even know they have an option – and will be swayed towards belief systems simply based upon the number of ads they see.
The whole thing is pathetic though.
Humans should think for themselves, instead of worrying about what others believe!
WAKE UP!!!!!!
The good news is God's grace is sufficient. It's easy to believe there is no God if you've never felt his presence. I pray that ythe Holy Spirit will manifest his presence in your life.
Posted on wrong thread, sorry.
The good news is God's grace is sufficient. Emily, it can be difficult to believe if you've never felt God's presence. I pray that the Holy Spirit will manifest his presence in your life and give you true joy!
Here is the email account of the billboard company, let them know what you think:
charlotte@adamsoutdoor.com
Peter, there are some reasonable discussions going on regarding the topic at hand. Why degrade this discussion with foul language and personal insults? If there is one thing missing from most discussions about religion and politics, it is reasonableness.
Emily, there certainly is no need for you to defend yourself, after all, you didn't put up these billboards.
)
ummmm… Hitler was raised Catholic and professed to be Catholic… I"m glad my kids don't go to your school